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Astra GTE 16v vs Honda Civic Type-R

5.5K views 90 replies 20 participants last post by  AdrianH  
#1 · (Edited)
Oooh look at that title, thought I would post one of these since there aint been one for a while and I'm buggering off the weekend!

Honda Civic Type-R, 197bhp @ 7,400rpm, 0-60 in 6.8secs, 146mph maximum speed.
90% of torque available at 3,000rpm.

Astra GTE 16v, 156bhp @ 6,000rpm, 0-60 in 7.4 seconds, 137mph maximum speed.

Max torque available @ 4,800rpm (90% from 3,300rpm).

My mate test drove one the other day, gave it hell and said he wasn't amazed by it. Whether this was because it could do with a few miles under its belt to loosen it up or what I don't know. Perhaps he's been driving round in a Porsche or something :p

Either way they are very quick, look at the spec. According to all reports they offer a firm and direct feel and as many have said, it's the closest thing to the 'old hatchbacks' there is and that's why many rate it higher than the V6 Clios and new MG-Z thing.

What would you have to do to an Astra GTE 16v to put it on terms with the Civic in straight line speed? I guess throttle bodies since they offer good power gains and replace the 'restrictive' set-up the car is born with. But with a better head, cams, exhaust, flywheel etc etc could you get the necessary 'performance' to challenge this car?

VTEC engines are pretty smart, their torque figures always seem low but that's just down to the specifics of the engine. With two cams that respond according to the driving these things tend to take off after 5,000rpm and scream all the way to a 9,000rpm limiter. Scarey stuff.

When 0ddball raced Tom Stickland there wasn't a huge difference, with Tom's car topping 145bhp with the B+ head it seems to make a big difference in terms of performance, if not bhp. 0ddball gained where his car could use the extra 400rpm, thus creeping ahead with every change up.

If you race a car with a 7,250rpm limit against one with a 9,000rpm limit is the former gonna get whooped purely because the other can stay in gear longer?

I'm also wondering cos another mate of mine has jumped ship to a Corolla GTi and loves the huge revving of the car. He says it's real quick and he owned a very capable GTE 16v with about 170bhp.

Mike - have you raced any other Type-R's apart from the Accord?

Gary - have you raced anything with a much higher rev limit?

0ddball - Tell us about the GTi-R ;)


Your thoughts people please.

P.S I wont really touch on the handling issue. That's gotta be down to the new technology and the Astra is 12 years old, perhaps 15 in terms of design. The Civic is brand spanking new and so I think I would leave it alone on bends!
 
#2 ·
I have raced two S2000s and beat both, I have also raced an Accord TypeR - that was quicker than the S2000s!!!?! :confused: My car wasn't running great at the time, but even so, I was damn quick.

Never raced an Integra or a Civic TypeR.

The extended rev range does not help, as the power band does not spread any further than a car that can only do 7500rpm. Honda use the higher revs to generate more BHP out of the torque provided. (read the article re BHP and Torque in the tech archives)
 
#3 ·
ÂŁ64 + VAT give you the steel rod bolt and then you can have the engine re-mapped to take into account the high rev limit (now 7,750) using either a new ECU (like the MBE) or a UNIchip. That would allow you to take it higher in each gear (40 in 1st and maybe almost 70 in 2nd).

I'm a bit dubious about that 6.8 seconds to 60mph. I'd like to actually see one timed before I agreed with that.
 
#5 ·
The car should still carry on to a higher speed though shouldn't it?

I know its possible to engineer an engine so it looks good on paper. They can tune it to produce very low CO2 emissions at idle and loads at higher revs or give it a great 0-60 time but not so good all round drivablility.

The power will drop after 6-7,000rpm but the car should still accelerate if not so well? Is that wrong?
 
#7 ·
That's what i wondered, in gear acceleration. If you hit the limiter in 2nd in the Astra and the Civic revs all the way to 9k you are almost at peak torque in 3rd when the Civic is only just getting wound up in 3rd. So how would this translate on the road?

Mike - You car is 65-70bhp more powerful than a standard valver and u have seen 156mph on your dash? so 150mph real world speed?

70 bhp = 13mph? (including performance gear not just power increasing stuff).
 
#11 ·
i had an integra at santapod, and beat him. i have no idea of the time cause i dont know what one it is out of about 40 slips i own. It was the old type, 1.8 vtec thingy, 196bhp. We were sitting next to each other and he was revvin the tits off it whilst queueing up, i slipped my window down and asked what it redlined at, he shouted 8500rpm. Goodluck i replied, but he had no chance against the pattented oddball superstart, mwuuuha ha haaaaaa.
 
#13 ·
How have other GTE 16V owners found their car compares to a Clio 172. My friend owns a 172 and was rather surprised he couldn't pull any gap on a 16V (with only an air filter and stainless system, otherwise standard).
He swore blind it "must have had a lot done to it"..................even though it hadn't.
 
#14 ·
they forget that the gte is a death trap, with the best safety feature being a seatbelt. what i'm trying to get at is the gte weighs the same as a packet of rizlas. an extra 20bhp will be easily swollowed.

Renault Clio 2.0 Sport 172 16V - 1335kg
Vauxhall Astra 2.0 GTE 16V - 1100kg

now consider that i shaved nearly half a second off my 1/4 mile time by shedding 80 kilos from my gte16v, you do the maths.
 
#15 ·
ERM.....

think the Civic would win EASY!.

All because it`s a Vauxhall site your COMPLETELY against ANY other car, GTE16v was good for it`s time but the Honda is WAY better now!.

Oh and the Renault 172 ARE quicker than a GTE16v, raced both and the 16v was slower out of the 2.

And if any-one`s gonna rant and rave about modding a 16v, remember Honda can and WILL do better!;).

;)
 
#16 ·
What you have to remember is that the grearing on the Clio172 is set up to make a good 0-60 (yes, they cheated to make sales). The story is a bit different over a 1/4 mile run where the Astra and Clio are pretty much equal.

Not sure about the Civic though - I would expect it to be quicker all round, but then as many people may know - these will not be modded for a while, so the large proportion of Astra GTE 16vs with their K&N, zorst and Superchip may keep up.

I personally would like the last Civic TypeR - Jap import ....hmmmm
 
#17 ·
i agree about the civic, think your on your own about the clio.

Ive raced 2 williams at santapod, trounced both, trounced all they had to offer at the 0-60 at trax too. The 172 is heavier that williams.

There is a 200kg difference between the 172 and a gte16v, thats the same as carrying two fully grown adult males. The clio will loose, plain and simple.
 
#24 ·
Hey Cemmy, if you're having to get into 3d gear to reach 60mph in a 16v then your car's not running right. My 2lte 16v got 75mph before needing 3rd. 95 in 3rd and 115 in 4th, never got to the end before an oap made it a write off.
fantastic engine the 2lte 16v xe.:)

can't really do much with my Cavvy, but the 5 is ready for mods. Virtually nothing on it yet.
I've recently been challenged by modded old Black Golf, but he always gets something between us before i can catch up. Today was a bloody roundabout. 3rd time lucky?;)
 
#25 ·
what did you have on it a 4 speed F16 gearbox ?

I ran up the 0-60 challange at trax, redlined in 2nd and drove for 200 yards on the limiter. I got no time on that run, why ? because i didnt reach 60mph on their datron radar gear thats why.

75 in second, with an F20 box and 7000rpm limit, no chance.