Vauxhall Owners Forum banner
1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,020 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
which one is the best to have,

would there be any benefits to use the charge cooler and a bigger front mounted intercooler together.

please help me im lost i have no idea which one or both together.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,309 Posts
charge cooler works when standing, so traffic light g/p but front mounted intercooler works when running and does heat like a charge cooler, as water recirculated, heats up over time. Expensive to have both though, good, for standing to rolling, switch charge cooler on and off with temp, so run bypass when rolling to keep water ambient, then when standing have chargecooler working to reduce charge temp. then when moving intercooler takes over. Why would you want both???
If wrong slap my wrists sorry be :beer: :beer: :beer: fault
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,561 Posts
Well an intercooler is cheaper so i would go for that!

A charge cooler though is technically more efficient and compact in comparison to an intercooler.

An intercooler relies on the ambient temp, as such it will never get cooler than a few degrees above ambient. It also needs a large surface area to be realy efficient.

A charge cooler has its own water system, a pump and rad. So if the pumps good enough then you can get it a lot cooler thna an intercooler.

the drawback is more electrical load and if the conection falls off or a fuse goes pop then your in trouble induction temp wise!

chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,020 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
you have the same idea as i do, i don't use my car intown much so i was thinking do i or don't i need a charge cooler, would the intercooler be enough i was thinking it would be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,561 Posts
Well turbo cars and trucks have used only intercoolers for years. They have survived fine and some have made some silly power with just an intercooler so, make yer mind up from that! lol

Intercoolers are fine you just need to care for it. Straighten bent fins, clear it out with petrol every now and again and so on.

Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,020 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ok thanx, would i get the same performance from just a front mounted intercooler, or would a charge cooler and a front mounted intercooler give me better performance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,561 Posts
No it won't.

Look at it this way you would fit the chargecooler after the intercooler. So you would be trying to cool an already cooled charge, it may drop 5 degrees temp wise. 5 degrees for about 600 quid or something? Wouldn't be me!

if you fitted the chargecooler before the intercooler it would heat the charge up in the intercooler.

Water injections good though if your really eager. Also if you use it often enough it cleans the combustion chambers and pistons quite nicely and keeps em clean.

I like water injection.

Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,020 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
i use my car every day at high speeds, the intercooler is being fitted next week, so i will put the charge cooler to one side for now, so what do you mean by water injection where would these go, at a guess on a switch to spray water on the intercooler :confused: but thats a guess
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,561 Posts
Water injection. It means what it reads like, injects water into the engine.

The thing you reffered to is an intercooler spray.

You can buy systems for both or you can make em. In best blue peter tradition and due to being a cheapskate I prefer to make things.

j1400 is indeed correct that you can run a methanol/water mix with water injection. teh methanol isn't really needed though. Helps up the octane rating a tad but nothing special.

Water injection was originally used in WW2 on planes, it allowed the pilots to 'up the boost' on their supercharged engines without melting something. They used methanol to mainly stop it freezing, it gets cold up high you know.

Water injected into the inlet charge will cool the charge and the water will evapourate, this ups the power and amkes things safer. Less likely to have the mixture self combust and it allows more o2 rich air into,the cyl.

The intercooler spray is less effective, its good though.

Cools the intercooler down. Jump in a bath of water and stand in front of a large fan, cold isn't it! lol

Aquamist do the water injection not cheap though. Do a google on aquamist and you should find something.

Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,331 Posts
Rob-D said:
would there be any benefits to use the charge cooler and a bigger front mounted intercooler together.
Normally it's not worth having both - either go for a large front-mounted i/c or a LARGE chargecooler (not the jokes sold by the vaux 'tuners' for half a grand)
Each one has advantages and disadvantages

For the ultimate high-boost machine, a chargecooler would probably be best, but you'd need to make it yourself(need large heat exchanger, large rad and hefty water tank):beer:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,451 Posts
lmao

Was speaking to a guy at AVA during one of the rolling road days. One of their main things is turbocharging BMW cars. The M62 engine (the 4.4 V8 in mine) is easily capable of running 800BHP all day long thru turbocharging :eek: :D


There is a supercharger kit (bout 5K fitted) that runs around 5psi giving 410BHP and 390lb/ft :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,331 Posts
So you've done some research, you cheecky lil booga:p lmao

The BMW blocks are really robust, and a V8 low-pressure turbo is not bad at all. I did some searhing for a low-pressure v12, even found an 850CSi at a good price. It was the lack of frontal area that made me abandon the plan.

With WI for on-boost cooling you don't need LC pistons for up to 1/2 bar. Won't sacrifice any low-end either, cams will be stock too :beer:

(the 12cyl CSi could borrow milder bits from the lesser versions!)

Food for thought, sleep well :D :beer:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
360 Posts
charge coolers also come with a boost pressure switch so that when boostpressure reaches 0bar it starts the pump up. surely this is bad, why not have it running all the time? as when your cruising on the motorway it wont be pumping water round the system so the charge temp wont be all that low, soon as you floor it, the pump fires up, but if the temperature of the water has risen quite a lot with being on a constant cruise, when you need the more condensed air at like 1bar, it wont be there, it will be too hot in temperature.

so therefore, why do you get this pressure switch thing? im gonna run mine on constantly, unless there is a reason against this
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,561 Posts
Theres not much point in running the chargecooler up to 0BAR. Cos any less is vacuum. That means idle or cruising along the motorway witht he throttle just cracked open. The turbo isn't boosting so no need for the charge cooler to operate.

The water will still circulate without the pump on, nothign special but it won't boil or anythign it will still remain cool.

So when you boot it the pump will fire up and you are jamming.

Not running it all the time puts less load ont he electrical system and saves wear on the pump and it helps keep things quiet!

Home made water injection.

Righty you need a jet for the water to exit from. A garden centre that supplies those high pressure nozzles for killing weeds ertc are fine. They are brass and you can get them pretty small these days as well.

You need a check valve, this is stop the water getting drawn in and also stop it being forced back up to the resovoir. Can get them fromt eh same place.

An inline filter would be nice to.

Tubing, the stiff clear plastic washer jet stuff will do the job. Not the crappy black rubber piping though.

Next thing is a pump. A washer jet pump won't cut it, you need a reasonable high pressure pump. These can be found if you look around.

A resovoir, some use the washer bottle but I find it empties to quick, the washers are on all the time and when you have a car boosting the water goes there to so I suggest a seperate tank. A low level warning light would be handy to.

You need a high pressure pump because when on boost you have the boost pressure trying to shove the water back up the pipe (thats also what happens at the fuel injectors and thats why we have rising rate fuel regulators).

Theres 3 ways you can arm it. Either set a boost switch so it comes on at a certain boost, a throttle switch (floor it and the pump fires up) or a manual switch. Its up to you but you might not always remember to flick a switch.

Easy enough.

Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,309 Posts
what capacity tank is good 5L?? is there any point in having one than one jet for control at different boost levels???
What sort of output pump??? is it better to have pump next to tank or near jet end??
Would prefer to stick tank in the back of the car theres bugger all weight there and would rather try to put any extra weight to the back to improve balance.
Can a mappable management control it??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,561 Posts
The escy cossies had the tank in the boot.

5 litres is plenty big enough.

Pump location erm not really important as long as the water gets out.

Pump output, nothiong silly, you know not somethign that will shame a fire engine a litre a min or something should should do it. You don't need a million gallons flowing.

Mappable management, erm might do, you would want a relay set up for that.

Chris
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top