Advice required on welding holes in my Manta floor panel

[MSG]

Thnaks, I did a little more practice today, I still have some time as I am waiting for the stuff I ordered from Bilt hamber, so no real rush to patch it up, have been checking welding carried out by another guy doing his Mk2 astra floor welding project, and can see how difficult it is to achieve a very clean weld, it is because you cannot really control the molten stuff the arc produces, so its a hit and mis kind of thing. But as i said his welding is a lot better than I can do at the moment.

Making cardboard templates and then get the steel sheets cut to sizes.

[MSG]

Any reccomendations of the thickness of the floor membrane, mild steel 1.2mm or do i use 1.5mm thicker?

and to repair the chassis runners, would a 2mm or 3mm ?

there are lots of sheet steel available on ebay and I shall probably order mine instead of getting from a local metal fabricator business who always seems to be too busy to make special cuts!

[MSG]

this is what I have achieved after removing major rust and cut out rotten sections, waiting for the rust gel to get rid of the rust where wire brush cannot get to.

[blueosis1]

the thicker steel i found is easier to weld,and better to grind all that goby weld back off again.lmao

[jayporn]

Looks alot more manageable already.

Inside the jacking point to the left still looks like you could chip some rust off it, that probably wont take a weld the way it is.

What mig welder have you got is it gas or gasless one?

I try to have the torch about 10mm away from the metal, if the welds spluttering and pushing your hand back the wire feeds too high, too little wire and the wire will burn back and stop,

You could try cranking the power right up so it burns a hole and then adjust it down slightly, keep the torch moving side to side or in a tiny circle to spread the heat.
You'll know when its right as it'll sound crackly like bacon in a pan (or chicken if your jewish lmao)

[MSG]

Thanks Jay, yes my mig welder is rated at 135amps and uses both gas and gasless method. I tried so far using only the gasless wire with flux. I wonder if using the gas would yield better results, that has to be tried yet when I have gained a little more grip of the system isntead of wasting gas for the time being.

A bit worried about blowing the 13amp fuse in the plugtop, as the maximum setting would require mains current of around 20to 25amps and so i have not tried at max amps yet and it has 6 settings from 30amps to 135 amps.

You are right about some rust that can still be cleaned out, my wire brush won't get right inside hence I am going to kill that rust using the gel.

and yes good point about leaving a wire at the tip around 5 to 10mm, too close it can weld to the copper nozzle, too long then its not any good, wire feed speed and the current to fuse the wire needs to be right so yes learning quickly.

as for crackling bacon, I am not religious at all, and eat everything animals except cats, i love cats. I will eat a dog if it tried eating my cat!!

[garymanc]

good progress.... look foward to the next installment

[MSG]

waiting for metal /rust treatment applications, sadly the company couldn't despatch items before Friday even though I placed the order on Wednesday, hence it won't be with me here to Monday, if I am lucky. I then got to apply the gel to nuteralise the rust that cannot be brushed off, and leave it for at least 24 hrs if not 48hrs!

In the mean time I would be needing tons of practice, theoretically I fully understand the principle of Mig welding, actually doing it is completely another thing, much much harder than I anticipated, I did try to hire a Mig welder for the very reason that if I could not do it then i have only lost about 40 quid hiring charges for 3 days, but since now I have bought one outright, I might as well learn through practice on scrap metal.

Main problem being I just can't see where I am going with that dark mask, I drift well off the intended line of weld, and still lack adjusting the right current and wire feed rate and my nozzle movement. There is a lot to catch up, it is definitely not someting you could pick up the skills in a short time.

may be I should order the automatic darkening mask, that might help a little more.

[hotrod192]

get a speed glass helmet,get rid of the gasless wire and make sure your metal is nice and clean.

[MSG]

get a speed glass helmet,get rid of the gasless wire and make sure your metal is nice and clean.

definitely I think i will need this, and I am going to have a go at gas welding today on scrap pieces. Thanks

[jayporn]

Have to agree with hotrod192, I've only ever heard bad things about gasless wire and i'd avoid it.
I got an auto darkening helmet on ebay and its the best thing i've ever bought, you can adjust the darkness level on the side. If your welding outside the daylight is probably reflecting off the inside of the helmet, try sticking a tea towel over your head lmao.

[8valve-craig]

Have to agree with hotrod192, I've only ever heard bad things about gasless wire and i'd avoid it.
I got an auto darkening helmet on ebay and its the best thing i've ever bought, you can adjust the darkness level on the side. If your welding outside the daylight is probably reflecting off the inside of the helmet, try sticking a tea towel over your head lmao.

Good advice (Tea towel) Had a real problem with sunlight inside helmet last week and just ended up putting up with it. Will definately be using this method next time. (wouldnt want it setting on fire though)

As for the flux core, Never encountered any problems, I actually preffer to weld with it. Although of course it is down to personal preference. (all my welding is done outdoors)

[MSG]

I just found out that the polarity set up was wrong, the instruction manual that came with the unit said it was set for no-gas welding, later on I found through internet search that for no gas welding you need to have the negative polarity on the nossle, and positive on the job!! done this and things are looking better now. More consitent weld and more controllable than before.

So you need to reverse the polarity when you weld with gas, so that the nossle is positive and the job negative.

[8valve-craig]

Not heard of this,

[MSG]

Indeed the welder I bought came with instructions to reverse the polarity when welding with gas, and it mentioned that it is factory defaulted or set to weld with no gas or for flux wire, so i took their words for it, but later on checking the set up, it was indeed wrong, it was set up for gas welding, and also the electrode that was pre-fitted was 0.8 that is for the gas weld and so I changed that to 0.9 for the flux wire, that is when I first had to load the flux wire I then changed the elecytrod to 0.9 but did not check the polarity.

It is only later on that I bothered and found that it was set up for gas welding wire, so now I have correct polarity and it seems the arc is more stable and produces a good constant sound as oppose to very erratic before with lots of splatter.

But this may be my imagination or just that I am now getteing a little more used to it. Polarity seems to be mentioned in all Mig weld articles, but not all of them tell you which way it should be for gas and no gas, they just tell you to se;lect the correct polarity. So for no gas welding using a flux wire you need to have the earth clamp on positive and the electrod on negative polarity.

But if using gas then you reverse the above so that the earth clamp is negative an the electrod positive. try that you might find that it works better and welds come up more tidier, perhaphs.

[8valve-craig]

I think il stick with how im set up to be honest. It seems to be working just fine for me. Post up some pics of your welding and we can compare the differences.

These are my best to date. (i am however no welder so much room for improvment)

[MSG]

I haven't vstarted mine yet, the rust treatment stuff arrived today from bilt hamber, so i will be applying that today and wash off tomorrow, and also got myself loads of stock metal sheets, I got it in zintec which shouldn't be much of a problem as is the galvanised stuff, and so i will be up on practice today.

The guy was great for bending a 2.5mm piece to form a jacking point stifner, like a nu shaped piece with 2 corners, and so on.


Most important thing about welding is not just the bead, but penetration so these are the things I will be watching out for.

[MSG]

Right I am defeated! couldn't do my own welding! so my car is off to a professional welder, there was no point in my doing a job that I am no good at.

Will keep posted on the progress, and take as many pictures if permitted as the guy said it will take him 3 days to sort it all out, cause he has to watch fuel lines running close to the welding area near driver's side, and he takes no chances. so he may well have to take all fuel lines off or screen them with an insulator.

However, I am pleased that I cleaned off flakey old rust, and prepared the car for him, he will simply be getting the job of welding done, I have been quoted £200 for the job, so he has a go ahead, the car would cost me a lot as I bought a Mig welder, which incidently he will use, as his one is broke, i can sell it on after I have no use for it or just keep it for minor repairs.

Bits of sheet metal and some thick 2mm stuff forming channels and brackets cost me 25 quid, rust treatments 40 quid, welding 200 quid, MOT about 50 quid failed and retest may be another 30 quid, if not full amount again, Road tax will cost 205 quid and finaly add the cost of the Mig welder 160 quid Totals over 700 quid on the road not counting my preparation time, and the anxiety to get the job done in time for a road tax, I would put the total cost around a grand! What a bugger!

Should have just scarpped the car and bollox could have got a nice little runner for around 500 quid!! Lesson learnt!

[mantasport]

Should have just scarpped the car and bollox could have got a nice little runner for around 500 quid!! Lesson learnt!

Or sold the car to a manta nut and got a few hundred quid for it, then bought a replacement

[MSG]

Oh well, its done now, so I look to the future, my main worry was to get it sorted before the end of this month for the MOT, so I can get my road tax. Then i will in my own time restore the rest of it, I have managed to buy some lights reflectors for the fronts and the rears clusters, from ebay.

[8valve-craig]

What a shame, i feel for you bud`. At least you admitted defeat and got someone else to do it as opposed to Completely f#####g it up as this would have probably rendered the car scrap anyway. Make sure you post pics of the guys work yes.

[MSG]

Thanks mate, yes I tried on a scrap metal and could see I was going to have absolutely no luck with my ability to weld and would have turned that car even more nastrier, so best to let the experienced get on with it, I shall do all the other preparing of course that i have done, like rust treatment, and then hopefully i will be with him as much as I can be without him feeling i am standing on his shoulder, i shall let him get on except advice him how he must spray zinc oxide coating on bare metal inside the channel before he welds the final plate on top.

Now looking at some of the mig weldiing done by lots of other people, I think i misjudged how good was your welding.

[Dav1d]

MOT about 50 quid failed and retest may be another 30 quid, if not full amount again

Go somewhere else for MOTs

[MSG]

I could have taken it elsewhere who charges only £35, but is around 3 or 4 miles drive, and if he fails on a corrosion then he can't do the welding , whereas the one I use regularly can do minor welding repairs as well as other mechanical work, so if a car fails, leave it with him and come back later in the evening or next day and the car is MOT'd and all repaired for a very reasonable charge. Further more if the car fails, I can walk back home about a mile away or come back in a dreaded bus!

[MSG]

Incidentely, I had to give my Mig welder to this guy to do the welding, and he insisted upon me supplying him with the CO2 gas and the 0.8 steel wire, so i went about changing the reels to gas welding, and thought i will give it a litt;le test, firstly when you first put on the gas regulator make sure your hands are covered as the escaping gas can freeze your hands as it did on mine, and you have to be very quick to screw it on or you could loose awful lot of gas.

Then as I had a quick go, I could not beleive how smooth, perfectly flowing, no lumps, no splatter, and neat the welding was using Gas, and not only that the light emitted by the arc was of a lot less intensity and very forgiving, such that I did not need to wear a mask just for a brief testing. However, the gas welding needs different settings for feed and higher current and seems lot stronger joint then the fluxed wire.

I could see more easily where I was going obviously not looking too direct at the arc but just a few mm away from it, !! If only I knew how good it is with Gas!! I would probably have done it myself, however, it is too late now, as the car has to be off road by tonight. (**** happens as they say and you learn by your mistakes)

PS. I only did a couple of inches long weld hence I did not need to wear a mask but obviously you don't want to learn this through your mistake and you could damage your receptor cells go blind so yes of course one must wear a mask to safeguard your eyesight.