Any spraying experts on MIG?

**Paul** · 26-01-2005 15:48

Need some gen on spraying 2 pack paint.
Putting the health issues to one side, anyone used it and got some good results?

Cheers,

Paul

**Haynzee** · 26-01-2005 15:49

Ive used it and my other lung is still fine.

**phunky monkey** · 26-01-2005 15:50

best paint to use id say better than the new water based **** you get now.

**Gal** · 26-01-2005 16:22

Is it that new metal flake paint? RUST!!!!

**MuppetMule** · 26-01-2005 17:08

You can safely use 2k paint with a respirstor as longs it has non of the nasty hardner in it.

**D4NNY** · 26-01-2005 17:18

right 2pack paint is an acrylic based solvent which needs to be thinned as well has have a 2pack hardener with it, the hardener contains issosarnate (excuse the spelling) this is very hamefull to you so a full air fed mask with in line filter is needed,

tbh i have mixed and used all paints on the market and i have always thought if you have got the proper facilities that 2 pack paint comes up really nice, only few layers needed for a full gloss deep look.

polyester basecoat is also a good finish but will require a laquer over the top,

cellulose = not worth it..

Waterbased is a good product but again will need a 2pack laquer over the top any way

Danny

**Mark T** · 26-01-2005 17:27

Isocyanate

It's a Cyanide compound.

Absorbed through skin, and by inhalation.

**dogsy** · 26-01-2005 17:38

you can now get masks that are not air fed but are suitable for spraying 2-pack. ive got a few and they are excellent, cost about £25 but you get a decent amount of use out of them.

**rod** · 26-01-2005 17:45

Originally Posted by dogsy

you can now get masks that are not air fed but are suitable for spraying 2-pack. ive got a few and they are excellent, cost about £25 but you get a decent amount of use out of them.

could you please tell me the make??

ROD

**Paul** · 27-01-2005 08:17

Cool, gonna go off today and get some masks as I dont want to die at the moment.

Cheers all,

Paul

**alistairk** · 27-01-2005 10:35

Also very interested in the £25 mask for 2K.... Every supplier I have asked has said you cannot get a mask which is not airfed for 2 pack. You also need to cover your eyes fully as it is rapidly absorbed through the tear ducts. I have a Wilson Airfed for 2 pack, covers the whole face and head like a welding helmet. You then wear a one piece hooded body suit which tucks into your boots and gloves.

If you don't have the facilities you are so much better off going for a polyester basecoat (whihc is whats used in 2 pack systems anyway) and using a 1K clear coat over the top, both of which you can use a regular £25 charcoal mask with.

Only thing to watch with 1K is it can still bloom like Celly in cold damp weather so watch when you start to apply it. You want it flashed right off before the temperatures start to drop in the late afternoon. Heated workshop helps too.

**Haynzee** · 27-01-2005 10:48

hmm. we are going to wear biohazard suits so shouldnt be a problem, and the workshop is heated so with any luck we wont die

Will get some photos of the jobs, first one is the MGBGT. - flat red.

in a few months we will be spraying the 100e - going to try a metallic.

Ali Ive got your painting gen thread saved on my desktop - great gen.

**Tim Poole** · 27-01-2005 11:36

anyone no the best temperature to spray 2k in

**alistairk** · 27-01-2005 13:03

heating isn't so much of an issue with 2K as it is with 1K as you can add something like Paint Rocket to speed up the cure time on 2K, and it doesn't bloom anyway. 1K and celly you can't do anything about the dry time and if the temp drops badly it can bloom up. High humidity can also cause problems with 1K and celly.

Never had a problem with it myself, but I'm always careful to check the weather reports before starting

Red is a sod colour as it seems to run more easy, and also it doesn't cover as well so you need extra coats on to get the right depth. Very important to use a decent primer that matches all the way round as it will shadow through on a red. You can tint the primer with a little red to blend it if you like, I wouldn't but some people swear by it.

For the red you could go old school and do it celly. Most of the restorers seem to like it better, claim it gives a better "classic" look not to bright and with good depth. Takes more work cutting and polishing back though.

If you got the breathing gear a 2 pack solid red will be OK, the 2 pack paint flows out more as it cures so much less polishing is required. Can look a little "plasticky" on older cars though (hense the resto crowd preffer celly)

Using a polyester basecoat with a clear (even on a solid finish) gives a great deepth and sparkle without looking plasticky. You can use 2K or 1K (or even I think Celly) clear over polyester.

Spec sheet will give drying times at various temperatures. IIRC 70 degrees F is usually what a lot of them quote "room temperature" at.

**Haynzee** · 27-01-2005 13:05

im a bit confused.

i will read that again. brb

**astragsi** · 27-01-2005 13:41

what is the gen with this 2pack paint

what is so special about it and also has any one got any pics of it on a car??

**Haynzee** · 27-01-2005 13:45

pretty much every car from the mid eighties until mid nineties came with it on.

**alistairk** · 27-01-2005 15:16

2 pack paint does not fade like celulose or 1K acrylic does. It has better chip resistance to most older types of paint.

It also contains far less volatile organic compounds in its thinners which is what the polution people were complaining about some time ago. Celulose in particular is high on VOC. 2 Pack is very low. So the polution is much less. Although the polution is much more severe...

A lot of cars are still painted in twopack

Some are now powdercoated you know?

Floella - didn't mean to confuse ya. PLease do ask questions, I'm full of a damned cold at the moment so I may not be making a lot of sense.

**Haynzee** · 27-01-2005 15:32

come again? lmao

no its all getting clearer now.

Pauls gone and got the paint now so will get some pics up of the job.

**jason102mc** · 28-01-2005 00:38

So what type of paint is metal flake or flip paint? And what paint will be on my 95 cav mk3?

**alistairk** · 28-01-2005 08:03

metal flake is just flakes of metal you mix into clear coat so you can do it will Celly, air drying Acrylic or 2 pack. A lot of people I've spoken to reckon air dry acrylic is the only way to go with genuine Metalflake brand or HOK stuff as you can get splitting in the clear if you go too far with 2 pack clear. Some of the other branks of flake reckon to bury much easier in fewer coats so you could easily use 2K

Most flips are uncatalysed, so you cover them over with a clear. You usually use 2 pack clear for this but you could use 1K acrylic or probably even celly lacquer.

No idea what paint you have on the Cav, but rub it with some celly thinners and if a load comes off its cellulose or at least a synthetic variation of cellulose / acylic. If it doesn't come off its a 2 pack.

I've done paint repairs on Vectras in celulose and its taken fine with no reaction.

**Mike007** · 28-01-2005 20:40

Almost all decent size bodyshops will now use 2-pack. Most manufacturers use a slightly different technology as they are able to bake the shells as upwards of 150 degrees C. Unlike celly the paint actually chemically cures which means that it has much better durability, chip resistance, water resistance, etc.

The reason you need an air-fed mask with 2 pack is that you need positive pressure inside the mask to ensure that no vapour is inhaled. No std mask will provide a good enough seal around the edges - the main filter may be OK, but you will still inhale some at the edges. And as Alistair said, you really want your eyes properly covered.

As for temperature, 2-pack should work from 0-40 degrees C without too much problem, but the ideal would be about 20-25. When you buy the paint you will have to get the correct thinner and hardener. Which thinners and hardeners you choose will depend on the temp, so work out what the temp is likely to be before buying.

Mike

**Paul** · 29-01-2005 09:18

Cool, great gen.

Got a quick question, Had all my panels striped to bare metal.
We then used some filler to remove some very slight dents and have given it one coat of etch primer and two coats of filler primer.

The primer is yellow in colour and I can still see the outline of the filler although the panel is smooth.

Is this a problem?
If so what are we doing wrong?

Cheers,

Paul

**Mike007** · 29-01-2005 09:41

Do you mean that you can see the filler 'grinning through' or that you can see a 'ring' in the primer where the filler was?

I would have thought it would be the latter. The filler was not sanded as well as it should have been and this is the problem. However, if you flat the primer back properly you should hve no further problems.

It is also possible that the primer has reacted with the filler but this is pretty unlikely.

One last piece of advice - some colours have very good opacity others have very bad. If you can get hold of some black/white chequer-tape from the paint suppliers, put some on a test panel when you are spraying and then you will be able to see when the top coat is opaque.

Mike

**Paul** · 29-01-2005 09:56

Yes I can see a very slight ring where the filler was.
I think the best plan, feel free to correct me would be to rub it down lightly and fit it with anther coat of primer.
The plan then was to hit it with some top coat and see what happens.

What do you think?

The top coat is tartun red. Its a very deep colour so I don't know if it will hide the filler.

Paul

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