matching paint

**Kerr** · 18-07-2002 17:58

why is it so difficult to match silver? I have noticed all astra coupes in marage silver, the bumpers don't match the car, same with mine. I got a rear bumper extension a couple of months ago and as the car was brand new i was too scared to allow the bumper to be painted and asked if it could be painted off the car. Anyway the extension is very good match to the car but highlights the difference between car/bumper bumper/extension. As the match was good between the extension and car i decided to be brave today. The car went in to get roof spoiler today and again that is a good match but when he tried to paint the front bumper he got exactly the same as before, a shade darker. He said he just could not manage to get the colour to match and never even attempted to do back bumper which is the one i am more concerned with. it is more noticable because of rear bumper extension but the front does not stand out because complete bumper including irmscher spoiler is all the same slightly different colour. The only reason the guy could give me was the panels above the bumpers are all contoured differently and this gives the impression that it is different colour. The car is back next week for side skirts, mirrors,headlamps and i have asked for the back bumper to be painted to hopefully match the extension. Has anyone any good advice on how to tackle this problem? I don't have photos to show what i mean but i have noticed that john astra coupe suffers with the same bumper problem if you look for his car to see. Another thing is for some reason most people can't even see the difference when studying the car. I can see it and would like some advice on how to make the match better. Cheers

**JAMIE B** · 18-07-2002 18:10

ive been told that plastic things like bumpers etc dont match very well cause it soaks in and always go a shade darker/lighter.

dont know if its true but thats what ive heard.hope that helps mate.

**Mike007** · 18-07-2002 20:46

In theory, if primed correctly there should be no 'soaking in' problems. It is possible that the bumpers my be slightly different from the factory (wouldn't be painted at the same time as the body). However, if your body man has painted yours with the same paint as other bits and they still don't match then???
I'll see if I can find out more.

Mike

**Mike007** · 19-07-2002 19:06

Having checked, the most likely explanation if they have been repainted with the same paint as the rest, and done properly, it is simply the angle that they are viewed from (different angle to body panels).

Cheers
Mike

**Kerr** · 20-07-2002 15:23

visited a few bodyshops yesterday and heard the same story yesterday. Silver cars bumpers never match 100% and the mirage silver ( silver with purple tint) is especially tricky to do. It will never match on the coupe even more so because of the shape of panels. The wings convex towards the bumpers and then the bumpers are concave and this is what gives a greater impression that the bumpers are darker. I saw a few examples of silver cars in bodyshops and as the guys explained silver is always trouble. The golf mk4 the silver bumper was darker but the plastic insert in the bumpers was spot on, he explained it was the material the bumpers were made of that alter the shade. The other one was a brand new 02 plate Audi A2. I thought the car had been painted because the front wings were a different shade totally, but actually the audi's front wings were made of plastic that caused the colour difference. would not be able to handle that. The only tips that were given was to either blend the rear skirt up to the waist of the bumper, but if i wanted the whole bumper to match it would take a near miracle and alot of patience to get it. The suggestion was to alter the pressure of paint so the metallic flakes sit at different angles at each part of the bumper so it appears as you look at it is the same colour. When infact the bumper would be a multiple of shades. mmmmm not conviced on than one. I am really not sure, the only other thing i can come up with is to get a slightly darker silver for the bumpers or darker silver for the skirt to bring them together. Either way i'm a bit worried about the outcome. I think i may have to put up with the colour difference or buy new front/rear bumpers which i don't want to do as i like the bumpers spoilers and extensions that are on it, we will see come wed/thur.

**Psycho Enigma** · 22-07-2002 14:29

Unfortunately most of what u've heard is true - silver is a nightmare to paint and match and the angles do make it change colour. Apart from getting a willing bodyshop to mix numerous different mixes of paint varying the amount of dark/light tinters and then trying to spray at different pressures there isnt much you can do. Its something im trying to remedy while at work and so far have worked out that most silvers need a reduced amount of black/blue in them and need to be sprayed at very low pressure and with quite a large distance between the gun and the panel being painted.
Dont know if that helps, and good luck getting it sorted

**JAMIE B** · 22-07-2002 14:54

how do you get a flip?

is it a colour you add to the laquer at the end or what?

i plan on having ago myself so any ideas would help.thankx

**Psycho Enigma** · 22-07-2002 15:00

im not to up on flips but from what ive heard there are 2 ways -
1) the way you suggested - a small amount of pearl in the lacquer
2)the way the pearl is added to the paint. Speaking to a guy at the MAx Power show who makes some of the nicest flips ive seen, he said it has got somethin to do with the weight of certain pearl tinters, the angle they land on the panel, and then the way they catch the sun. I aint got the kind of pearls he uses on my van so i havent been able to try anything out but apparently thats how you do it. If you find out anything else/different any gen would be much appreciated

**JAMIE B** · 22-07-2002 15:09

so if i was to have a go myself the best option 4 me would be to add the paint to the laquer.

but how much do you add?i think thats how some of the diy'ers do it.

**Psycho Enigma** · 22-07-2002 15:21

Probably trial and error is the best route.
Get some test cards (about a fiver for 50) spray each 1 in the basecoat, then using a qtr of a ltr of lacquer at a time add varying amounts of pearl and spray each different mix over a test card. Be sure to mark each card with how much pearl youve added and keep a note of how much you add so that when you get the right mix you can multiply the quantity of pearl and keep the percentage the same (ie qtr ltr lacquer = 2 grams purple pearl , 4 ltrs lacquer = 32 grams pearl) The thing with lacquer being clear is you probably only need small amounts. You could also try adding multiple pearls and see what happens.

**JAMIE B** · 22-07-2002 15:39

what exactly do you pearl?

where about can i get the paints?

i live in herts and would prefer to have a look in person so i can see what im buying

**Psycho Enigma** · 22-07-2002 15:54

a pearl is a type of colour which is added to other colours to make up the overall colour (similar to metallic) Your local bodyshop should be able to tell you where your nearest supplier is, small companies are usually better as they tend to offer a more 'friendly' service. Alternatively look in the yellow pages for 'automotive paint suppliers' . We use 2 companies - Autopaint International and AYCE Systems, might be worth checking them out if they have branches local. Explain to them that your thinking of adding a pearl flip to your lacquer and would like a look at the tinters they have available, they should be able to show you either a colour chart or the actual paint itsself (bear in mind tho that the paint can change colour alot depending on how much you add and what colour its going over)

**JAMIE B** · 22-07-2002 16:10

so a pearl is really just normal paint but because your using it with laquer to make a flip its called pearl?

so if i asked for example,2 litres of dark blue paint,2 litres of laquer and 2 litre of sky blue paint i could spray the car blue and add some of the sky blue paint into the laquer and there you have a flip paint jobv?

have i got it or am i thick as s**t?

i take it you r a srayer by trade then?

**martin** · 22-07-2002 16:15

spooky,just put up a thread about silver paint.

**Mike007** · 22-07-2002 20:44

As Psycho Enigma said, Pearls are like metallics. Metallic colours have small flakes of aluminium in that reflect the light. The best way to think of a pearl is of a paint with a coloured aluminium flake, smaller than in a metallic. So that when light shines on it, it reflects red, blue etc rather than silver of a metallic.
If by flip you mean the 'chromaflair' type finish, this is nothing to do with pearls, but is a completely different (expensive) pigment and paint.
All metallics and pearls have a 'flip' - when viewed from different angles, the colour appears different (see above).
By putting a pearl in the laquer, if you had a white basecoat with a blue pearl in the clear, the car would look white, but at the right angle/with the correct light, you would see a blue 'tinge'.

I hope all that makes sense, I did go on a bit!!!

Cheers
Mike

**JAMIE B** · 22-07-2002 21:31

hi mike,how you doing mate,any new modds to the nova?

the last bit is the bit im thinking off.when a car is say yellow and if you look at it from certain angles it looks say orange(the flip colour)

to acieve the above i would need a base coat(not sure if it has to be metalic)and a laquer(clear)and a perl colour

now have i got it,i think i have

thankx for the input lads its really helped.

**Mike007** · 22-07-2002 21:37

Alright mate, no, no new mods yet. Bit skint at the moment.
Anyway, you've got the idea. The basecoat is whatever colour you want the car to look 'normally', so it doesn't have to be a metallic. The pearl goes in the clear and gives you a tinge on colour. Obviously, this works best if the colours are quite different as there isn't much of the pearl in the clear. I'll see if I can find out tomorrow for you how much pearl to add.

Mike

**JAMIE B** · 22-07-2002 22:07

yes mate that would be good,do you where abouts i can get the paint locally

jay

**Mike007** · 23-07-2002 18:28

Right...Spray basecoat as usual. Add 1-5% of pearl basic to clearcoat (if you haven't got any way to check how it looks at different levels, just add 3%) and over-thin (eg instead of 2:1 do 3:2). Spray 1 coat. Then spray 2 coats of normal clear (no pearl, and not over thinned).
As for buying locally, your best bet is to check the yellow pages, or if that doesn't have anything, try asking a local bodyshop where they get there's from.

Cheers
Mike

**Psycho Enigma** · 27-07-2002 14:53

Cheers for explaining it like that Mike, makes it easier than my explanation.
Let us know how you get on Jay, would be good to see how it comes out in the end

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