Painted mirrors - Do they HAVE to be laquered?
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Thread: Painted mirrors - Do they HAVE to be laquered?

  1. #26
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    Essential Paint Guide

    Aerosol v Spray Gun
    courtesy Jon Mitchell (Independant Porsche Mechanic)

    OK, down to basics.

    Gloss from the gun/can is achieved through even application of paint.. for
    it to gloss from a gun, or can, the following has to be correct.

    1. Distance between the nozzle and the surface. too far and the paint
    will begin to dry before it hits the panel (dry looking and dull, a little
    like sandpaper).. too close and too much paint will be applied too
    quickly... Air (propellant) pressure also comes into this as higher pressure
    air (propellant) will cause the paint to move at higher speed, which
    effectively reduces the distance, too low a pressure and the paint will not
    be atomised into fine molecules which would result in paint droplets hitting
    the panel.

    2. Coat thickness. Too thin a coat and the paint molecules will not flow
    into one another, which again will cause a dry dull sandpaper Finnish... too
    thick a coat and the paint will run, or as the paint dries, a skin will form
    on the paint, which will cause the encased paint to dry more slowly, this
    causes the famous orange peel effect (dimpled or hammered look). As a rule,
    coat thickness is determined by the speed of movement of the gun/can...
    moving slowly causes more paint to be applied, moving fast causes less.

    3. Preparation. For a good gloss, the surface that the paint is applied
    to must be perfectly smooth and without texture, while still having a
    microscopic surface finish keying (flatted of with 1200 - 800 grit wet
    paper)

    Now with a can, the problem is that the spray pattern is circular, which has
    a result, that as you spray in a line, the centre of the line picks up more
    paint... the effect of this is that the paint is either too thick in the
    middle and too thin at the sides (gloss in the middle, dry sand paper look
    at the outside.)

    Another problem with a can, is that the air is not at a precise regulated
    pressure. So when you start, the pressure (therefore delivery rate) is high,
    and as the can empties, the pressure (delivery rate) is low... so you have
    to watch your distances and application speed with cans because as the
    pressure in the can decreases, so the delivery rate will decrease.

    There are a few things you can do to improve application using cans, here
    are some tips.

    1. Paint flows and atomises better when warm, so warm up the cans in a
    bowl of warm (not boiling, but hot tap temperature) water before you use
    them, if your doing a large area, that's going to use more than one can, or
    more than one coat, then keep the water warm, and keep your other cans
    standing in the bowl while your using another, or between coats. This also
    has the effect of slightly increasing the pressure of the propellant which
    is desirable.

    2. Paint not only flows from a can better when warm, but the paint, when
    it hits a warm surface, will flow better too, with the molecules more happy
    to flow into each other when warm, increasing the chances of a good gloss.
    Another side effect of a warm surface/panel, is that the paint will dry
    faster once applied, and more importantly dry evenly throughout its depth
    (avoiding orange peel)... so warm the panel a little with a hair dryer or
    hot air gun before you shoot the paint... but as well as this, while
    spraying, keep the can in one hand, with the hot air gun/hair dryer in the
    other following the action of the spay gun... but keep the heat source
    moving or swirling to avoid a build up of heat in a localised area...
    another idea is to keep the heat setting on a hot air gun to a minimum, and
    on a hair dryer to a medium setting.. otherwise you will blister the
    previous or fresh paint..

    3. Shake the cans really well, for as long as you can before use, and
    give them couple/few shakes at the end of each pass to keep the paint
    mixed... this is not just to keep the colour mixed, but to ensure that the
    thinners in the paint is also well mixed with the colour... all too often if
    you do not do this, you will find that the paint will apply too translucent
    when you first use the can, and become thick by the time the can is empty...
    also the paint will be less predictable, which will make judging your
    distances more tricky.

    4. If your going to use a can, try to buy ones with a inserted nozzle
    that provides a more fan like pattern than the normal conical/circular
    pattern from your average Holts style can.

    5. If your using a gun, a trick is to place a few (ultra clean) ball
    bearings in the paint pot on the gun. this allows you to swirl the gun after
    each pass so the paint stays mixed by the action of the ball bearings
    pushing through the paint and stops the paint solids from settling to the
    bottom of the pot (along with keeping metallic particles on a metallic job,
    well mixed and applied in equal amounts from pass to pass and stroke to
    stroke).

    6. Pattern is important, paint in straight lines, with the can/gun at a
    right angle to the surface AT all times, each pass should overlap the
    previous one by 25 - 50%.
    If your using a standard nozzle on a can, do one coat on a horizontal axis
    (as overlapping stripes painted left to right), the next on a vertical one
    (again overlapping stripes going from top to bottom)... with a gun, stick to
    horizontal stripes.

    7. Paint is more likely to run on corners for several reasons. So its a
    good idea to paint any corners as your first coats... with corners like
    wheel arches, or other edges, rather than this first coat being applied in
    straight lines, it should be applied in strokes that follow the lines of the
    car, but again overlap your bands if your painting more than one pass. On
    later coats of the flatter areas, spray your bands regardless of the corners
    and treat them as if they were not edges at all, just be cautious of not
    applying to much to them on later coats.

    COATS:

    One of the most important things to know about coats is "flash times", this
    is the amount of time you leave between coats... when using a spray gun and
    2k paint, flash times need to be no more than 15 mins but more than 5
    mins... with cellulose. the flash times can be up to doubled... with a can,
    follow the rules for 2k paint, as your coats will be thinner! The reason for
    flash times, is to allow the thinners to evaporate, but not allowing the
    paint to fully harden (it needs to be just very slightly tacky) between
    coats, this allows the following coat/coats to bond to the previous coat...
    if the previous coat has allowed to dry fully, the next coat will not stick
    to it, and so any fully hardened coat should be lightly wet sanded with 800
    grit wet paper, so the next coat can key to the previous one. with this
    technique, the sanding needs to just "Knock off" the gloss.. so you know you
    have sanded enough when you wipe the panel with a paper towel and it looks
    dull.

    With solid single stage schemes (no lacquer) with cans you should use about
    5 coats minimum, with a gun that could be cut down to 2 or 3.

    With twin stage colours, the base (colour) coats must be thinner, should not
    be glossy otherwise any metallic content (tiny metallic particles) will sink
    into the paint and be lost (leaving the base non metallic). On these twin
    stage schemes, the lacquer should be applied as with any other coat, meaning
    that it needs to be applied while the base is still slightly tacky,
    otherwise later you will be a victim to the famous lifting lacquer syndrome.

    A word of warning with lacquer (mostly from cans), do not apply the coats
    too thick, otherwise it will go milky... you need to use JUST enough for a
    gloss on each coat.

    A tip with lacquer, is that the more coats you apply, the deeper the finish
    will look... imagine the lacquer is a coat of glass, thick glass will look
    like a deeper finish than thin glass, the same is true with lacquer.

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  3. #27
    MIG Regions Admin / South Central Regional Coordinator Benn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaye944
    courtesy Jon Mitchell (Independant Porsche Mechanic)

    A tip with lacquer, is that the more coats you apply, the deeper the finish
    will look... imagine the lacquer is a coat of glass, thick glass will look
    like a deeper finish than thin glass, the same is true with lacquer.
    two things,

    porsche mechanic? i'd rather get paint help from a painter,

    and tomuch laquar and it will chip worse,tomany coats and it weakens the finish,
    I'm louder than gods own revolver and twice as shiney.

  4. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benn
    two things,

    porsche mechanic? i'd rather get paint help from a painter,

    and tomuch laquar and it will chip worse,tomany coats and it weakens the finish,
    Benn,
    Jon Mitchell, is the Technical Advisor for "The Independant Porsche Enthusiasts Club", he also has some 20+ years experience on most cars plus some exotic ones and started out as an appretice. He has his own thriving buisiness working on Classic cars, exotic cars and Bog standard cars.

    I'd do a google search on him as he knows his stuff, he advises on various forums and is well respected.

    As for your "Porsche Mechanic" comment I'm not entirely sure what you mean.
    A car is a car is a car. So what's your problem ?

    But like most advise, its usually free and you can take it or leave it.

    Hope this helps

    Jaye

    Ford Capri 1.6s Mk.II
    Ford Capri 2.0GL MK.III
    Ford Capri 2.8i Mk.III
    Ford Escort (x2)
    Vauhall Astra (x3)
    Ford Focus (x2)
    Porsche 944 S2 Cab
    Merc Benz c180
    Merc Benz c200 sport

  5. #29
    MIG Regions Admin / South Central Regional Coordinator Benn's Avatar
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    dont have a prob,
    and didnt know who he was,
    i didnt mean anything in a crappy way,just more if hes a Mechanic he wont know painting or bodywork...
    thats all,
    I'm louder than gods own revolver and twice as shiney.

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