yet another load of re-spray questions.....

[Rubix_Cube]

Hi all,

Ive read most of hte posts on re-sprays (some great advice from dogsy , alister, moke ect...)

Now I currently drive a 3 door 96 mk3 astra and because my gsi kit is in primer and the local pikey scum have decided to key my car to buggery (now found a secure garage - bit late now tho....) Im going for a home re-spray and I have a few questions before I start.

Because this is a basic re-spray in black and not overally bothered about perfection what would be my best bet - Painting it in a Gloss out the gun Celly or a 2pac basecoat and a 1k laquer ??? (what would be the best finish and longest lasting durability wise)

How many litres of paint am i looking for to do the whole car inc door shuts , boot shuts ect... ( I was told around 6 after mixing with thinners) should i be looking at more??

Also if I was going the 2pac basecoat and 1k laquer how much of each would i be looking to buy??

think thats all for just now but if it think of anything else ill add it to this post.

Cheers
Andy

[niges calli]

best using 2 pac mate but make sure your area is well ventilated chances are with 2 pac you wont need to laquer after as it has a high gloss finish anyway

[Rubix_Cube]

2pac is not an option im afraid due to not having a mask with a clean line air feed and there aint no way im breathing in the icsosyanide (sp??) stuff

[Benn]

meh,as long as your not breathing it all day you'll be ok,
i've painted bits of mine in a small ish room and bar having blue and grey snot i've been fine.

[Barwick]

I've got 2pack on bare skin a few times before now whilst cleaning equipment with trainers on (all the paint going straight onto my shoes cleaning it outside) and it cramps your arteries up, atleast that what it felt like with me. very strange feeling. Had to be the paint can't see it being anything else. Stays in your system forever i think (never comes back out).

[fragpot]

As far as I'm aware, its the hardner in 2K laquer that contains isocyanides. You can lay down a 2K basecoat with a normal mask. You could finish with 1K clear coat or isocyanide free 2K laquer if you can find it.

[joeontherun]

hi mate im currently the same as your self im doing a few bumpers and panels now when you say Celly iv used it with 1k laquar dont get me wrong celly goes on good but the finish just does not quite meet the same standerds as 2pac this was the hsit i used befer it highly blures after a few days of polishing its kindoff a long story and alot of money.

Any way we applyed celly primmer, then basecoat gloss black celly, then 1k laquar. As we practiced alot with this paint we began to leave the paint for a few days to give it time to harden we pulled it out the garage then took alook at the results knowing that there was totaly no shine and a bit of orange peel we knew we could get it out with a good sand and polish so once we did this here was the results a few people has probobly seen this image.







But dont be fooled this shin was perfect just as good as 2pac black so we though great and put the bumpers back on the car in summer a few days later i whent to look at the finish and noticed slight bluring around the edges of my reflection so it suddenly came to my attention and my friends that something was wrong so we though we would give it a few more days whent out again and bang totaly blured the shine had gone even though flat

sorry about this being so big so we though ****!!! nearly 100 of celly ****ed on 2 bumpers and a bonnet i knew it was something to do with the paint and by this time i was gaining knowledge of 2pac to hear that its very hardwareing and supposubly keeps its reflection.

so i whent and bought more paint 2pac 40 pounds again lol but the results were worth the money plus we were learning at the same time. i totaly whent to a new supply called ARK in my area they do cars all the time unlike autosave who just sell the stuff thats where i was buying the celly from any way i asked the guy in ark what was coasing that he says the thinners i was using is what you call waterd down and celly genraly blures alot quicker heres the 2pac i bought from ARK



Any way we got this stuff and got right in about the bumpers again sanded them back down and coated them with 2pac primmer stuff called green ti filler the guy recomended going over the celly with it says it goes rock hard and coated it with the paint polished it up and bang a very nice reflesion but!!! was it going to stay after we got advice on all sorts of things damp,rain,ventilation,dust,silicon any way we left the bumpers in the sun after polishing it a week later and its still got that mirror shine today.

if i had a pic of the bluring i would show you guys but unfortunutly i forgot to take one im sorry about the size of this post if any body has any more advice on why the celly did that let me know couse id like to use the stuff if it stayed glass looking thanks for reading .

[Mike007]

I would go with the 2-pac basecoat and 1K laquer. That seems to be the best compromiseif you haven't go the safety equipment.

Mike

[cambridge]

i used a "boil in the bag" 3M charcoal respirator and the pre filter sheets when i did mine, and i dont seem to ahve any adversie side effects (bar that 3rd head which keeps bugging me)

[Rubix_Cube]

Cheers mike - thats the answer i was looking for to be honest - just wanted someone elses opinion

What is the durability like compared to full 2pac or celly.

I know a fair few people have gone nah - itill be fine - forget the air feed but knowing my luck it would all go horrably wrong and i dont fancy chancing it tbh.

[Rubix_Cube]

Right all quickly before i go and buy this paint.....

How much of each should I be looking to buy to paint a mk3 astra 3door with a tad to spare??? (Paint , Laquer ***AFTER Been mixed with thinners** ie 4lt or black and 2lt of clear))

Is there any brands I should be looking out to buy / not to buy.

What kind of finish and durability will i get by just using the 1k laquer and again is there a brand i should be looking out to buy/stay away from (Ie. tetrosyl)

Cheers
Andy

[Mike007]

It's always best to buy too much, so I would go with 5 litres of base coat and laquer (once thinned).

I think that the durability of 1K laquer is OK compared to celly but obviously not as good as 2K.

I remember meeting a painter once that had been using 2-pak for several years without a mask. He said that it had never done him any harm. His skin was a healthy shade of grey, and far from being the 55 years old he looked, he was barely 40!! OK, it may have had nothing to do with the isocyanate, but I don't see how you can say it hasn't done you any harm. It's not the sort of thing that will make you keel over there and then. Where I used to work we always wore full face air fed masks but we still had to have lung-function tests once a year to make sure that there weren't any problems.

Mike

[dogsy]

i used a "boil in the bag" 3M charcoal respirator and the pre filter sheets when i did mine, and i dont seem to ahve any adversie side effects (bar that 3rd head which keeps bugging me)

these are what i use when spraying 2k and there perfect. for short jobs (a few days at most) there well up to the job, if your painting as a job then get an air fed tho.i asked about the 'boil in the bag' masks when they first came onto the market and was told there made for use with 2k lacquer but only on short exposures, and that came from 3M.

also, about the lacquer - try a company called Ayce Systems and get some of their safe 2k lacquer. its not quite as good as normal 2k but its ALOT better than 1k !! ive been using it in work for a while now and its very good stuff for the money (we cant use normal 2k in work due to H&S so we need the next best safe stuff, and safe 2k has no isocyanates in at all but still gives an excellent and very durable finish, even to the point where we use it on alloys)

[alistairk]

clears are only needed if you are painting metallic or a HS Basecoat solid colour.

The hierarchy is like this:

Celly - fairly easy to apply and work with, mildly toxic, solid or metallic, dries dull. If its a solid colour needs a good cut & polish to shine. Least durable finish (oxidation etc.)

1K - usually only clear now, fairly easy to apply and work with, mildly toxic, dries dull. Requires a good cut & polish. Slightly better than celly for durability.

HS base - requires 1K or 2K clear over it. Goes on nice, covers well, dries satin. Mildly toxic.

2K - goes on easy, dries to a gloss finish. Heavily toxic and can also be absorbed through the skin etc. Very good durability if you use a decent product.

Not tried this safe 2K clear but will be doing soon. Sounds ideal.

The thing about 2K drying to a gloss is a bit of a misnomer IMHO. I've seen a few cars done where the guy has proudly told me "thats just how it went on, not cut it or anything" and yeah, you can tell! Even a 2K finish needs a cut & polish for it to look right so you're not saving anything in that respect. Where you do save effort is 3 months later you're not at it with the T-Cut again... It stays glossy once its polished up unlike 1K or celly where you need to keep waxing and polishing to keep the shine.

I've not done an Astra, I've done smaller and larger cars, and here's how it went on the last two...

Ford Pop - 2 litres HS basecoat, 2 litres basecoat thinners (comes in 5 litre tins though, but good for cleaning the gun after). 4 litres 1K clear, can be applied straight from the can or thin with high gloss thinners to make it dry a little more glossy (saves a bit of cut & polish). I applied straight from the can.

Vauxhall Victor - 4 litres celly metallic thinned with 5 litres of high gloss thinners (I actually thinned the first ground coats with standard thinners but thats another story), 5 litres 1K clear applied straight from the can. I was going to thin the last coat with high gloss thinners but forgot... This car was silver and the paint had quite poor coverage so you wouldn't need as much if it were say a green or blue car where the coverage is much better.

Both cars used about 3 litres of high build primer, and similar amounts of standard thinners. High build usually comes in 5 litre tins anyway.

If you use 2K clear you won't need as much as you will with 1K. Also with 2K 1 litre of paint makes up to about 1.75 or 2 litres of mixed material with activator and reducer in it.

I use HVLP spray guns which are more economical with paint than the old fashioned high pressure guns are so you may need more paint if you have a Clarke/SIP basic gun or similar.

Also I tend to put quite a lot on, some people would only do 3 coats of clear with 1K and maybe 2 coats with 2K but I like to put a load more on than that as it gives me loads to polish back into.

Like Mike says, err on the side of too much not too little as nothing is worse than running out when you need like another half a litre and its sunday and everywhere is shut!

Good luck!