Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

  1. #1
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    MOON
    Posts
    454
    Drives
    TANK

    Thumbs up Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    What I need to know is after I respray my car with (Solid Black) Cellulose paint can I let the Celly dry (about 3 days) before I coat it with a 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ? and do I need to compound the Celly to a shine before I spray with 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    Would the Celly paint react with a 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ? and would this give me the good deep high gloss finish that Im after ?

    Thanks for your help..
    MK3 astra only forum www.mk3oc.com

  2. Remove Advertisements
    MigWeb.co.uk
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Chelmsford, Essex,
    Posts
    17,678
    Drives
    1.6LPG, 1.8, 1.9CDTI

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    use 2 pack base coat, and Celly/Poly Laquer, and you'll live longer.
    http://www.tssd.co.uk How Tos . http://www.gte24v.co.uk/shop/ Parts For Sale The two most life changing experiences you'll ever have. Finding Jesus, and having a baby.

  4. #3
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    MOON
    Posts
    454
    Drives
    TANK
    Thread Starter

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark T
    use 2 pack base coat, and Celly/Poly Laquer, and you'll live longer.

    Well thank you for that but could you answer my questions?

    p.s. How the hell is using 2pac base and celly clear rather than 2pac clear and celly base make me live longer?
    MK3 astra only forum www.mk3oc.com

  5. #4
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Chelmsford, Essex,
    Posts
    17,678
    Drives
    1.6LPG, 1.8, 1.9CDTI

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    2 pack laquer Hardener is higly toxic. Air line respirator only.

    2 pack base, and any celly can be done with a Charcoal respirator.

    Celly laquer is easier to polish up to a high shine.
    Last edited by Mark T; 31-08-2004 at 00:59.
    http://www.tssd.co.uk How Tos . http://www.gte24v.co.uk/shop/ Parts For Sale The two most life changing experiences you'll ever have. Finding Jesus, and having a baby.

  6. #5
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    675
    Drives
    Ventora & Yanks

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    If its celly it doesn't need a lacquer. You polish the paint direct. Some people say that polishing the paint not the lacquer gives a much deeper shine than polishing lacquer which only gives a superficial shine. I've seen cars done in celly with no clear which look like glass, its a superb effect when you get it right.

    I would be dubious about cellose lacquer over a 2 pack base due to cellulose being a sod for reacting with other paint types.

    TBH I'd probably go for a 2 pack base and clear as it will last longer if its a daily driver. Celly is more chip prone, and you have to maintain it, good quality sealer wax or it will oxidise quickly.

    I got a respirator recently so I can do 2 pack, celulose is really old tech now and a lot of places don't do it any more, all the advances are in "compliant" paints now. Some colours can't be matched in celly, etc. etc.

    Your choice.

  7. #6
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    675
    Drives
    Ventora & Yanks

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    oh and, to answer your question, if you clear over a celly base don't buff it to a shine first.

  8. #7
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    MOON
    Posts
    454
    Drives
    TANK
    Thread Starter

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    Thanks alistairk + Mark T

    So are you saying 2-pack clear over a celly base is not a good idear ? (reacting)

    Why Im using a celly base is: I have 4L of black to be used up and I hate waste . I know celly is not the toughest so I thought 2-4 coats of 2-pack clear on top would strength it up ? and give a good shine with out much compounding work..

    Also I thought 2-Pack base had Hardener and was as higly toxic as the 2-pack lacquer is ?
    Can someone give more info on this??

    Jimbo
    MK3 astra only forum www.mk3oc.com

  9. #8
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Herts
    Posts
    5,972
    Drives
    Grale, Mustang, 535i

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    2-pack base coat doesn't have any hardener in, just thinner.

    Mike

  10. #9
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    MOON
    Posts
    454
    Drives
    TANK
    Thread Starter

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike007
    2-pack base coat doesn't have any hardener in, just thinner.

    Mike
    Ahh right ...Thanks

    Sorry for all the questions peeps ........ Thanks for the help..
    Last edited by jimbo750; 31-08-2004 at 21:18.
    MK3 astra only forum www.mk3oc.com

  11. #10
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    675
    Drives
    Ventora & Yanks

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    2 pack clear over celulose should be OK, celulose over 2 pack is asking for trouble (IMHO) as celulose has a habit of reacting with other paint types as bases.

    At also strikes me as the wrong way around. You want the 2 pack on top as its the more durable finish.

    I'm not a 2 pack expert, but I thought I'd seen hardeners for 2 pack bases? Whats with that Mike? I'm presuming a catalyst to speed up curing in "production" environments?

    Celly is dissed as being a poor long term finish, but I knew a guy with a black Austin Somerset built in 1953 and it still had its original factory black celulose paint on it last time I saw it (about 1992, he sold it after that). It was still shiny, although it was polishing thin in a couple of places.

    Put plenty on, buff a good shine in it, hand glaze it for the first 2 months or so then get a quality polymer wax and sealer on it (Meguairs NXT perhaps?) and keep it waxed well and it should shine deep and rich for as long as you own the car.

    Since you want to use up the celly, its the way I'd go.

  12. #11
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Herts
    Posts
    5,972
    Drives
    Grale, Mustang, 535i

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by alistairk
    I'm not a 2 pack expert, but I thought I'd seen hardeners for 2 pack bases? Whats with that Mike? I'm presuming a catalyst to speed up curing in "production" environments?
    You can use a small amont of hardener in 2-pack base coat (about 10% RFU) to improve durability - it doesn't cross link like a 2-pack direct gloss or laquer but it does improve durability, especially stone chipping. It may be that some not-so-good paint recommend it as std to compensate for poor paint, I'm not too sure.

    If you are going to use a 2-pack laquer I see no point in risking reaction or anything else - you may as well just use a 2-pack base coat. And buy the most expensive laquer that you can afford, as it is the laquer that will contain UV absorbers and things that wil stop (or at least slow down) your paint fading.

    Mike

  13. #12
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    675
    Drives
    Ventora & Yanks

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    Cheers Mike, that makes sense.

  14. #13
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    south
    Posts
    263
    Drives
    astra

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    hello all

    i started spaying around 2 years ago and still consider myself very much an amateur at it despite some realy gopod finishes. I dont know how experianced you are mate but when i was researching like you arer i found there was so much information i almost went crazy. in my opinion the most important things are a dust free enviorment with a few heaters to raise the temp slightly + practice. the real answere to getting an excelant shine is in the ability of your spraying. Sure the right tools for the job help a great deal but i guess i trying to say if you mess up just the slightest it can rewine the whole thing and when you spend all that tyime on preperation it can be a real pain in the arse.

    I know this doesnt realy answere your question but just thoguht id add. hope this helps anyway. i spray with celly and never go near two pack because of the health risk and cost of air masks etc. so if i can be of any help with advice on the basic celly proces let me know mate - i needed all the help i could get without the jargon!

    have fun,
    regards,
    Neal

  15. #14
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Birmingham
    Posts
    3,321
    Drives
    Vectra saloon 2.2sri

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    nice post gettingthere spot on

    dust free environment / tiled floors and walls with heaters and vacuums

    as for cellulose, I would suggest using that unless u have the perfect working conditions and a 5k spray gun and compressor

    with cellulose u can build up the coats and even if the end product is dull u can using cutting compound / t cut and resin polish to bring out the shine, loads of elbow grease and patience will make the finish look professional, I use a 50 gravity gun and 100 compressor, I spray my car outside sometimes when it is hot / sun shining and no wind

    with 2 pac u cant use t cut as the laquer gives it the shine and t cut will just remove the laquer leaving it duller

  16. #15
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    south
    Posts
    263
    Drives
    astra

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    Also spot on, sounds like me lmao :

    "with cellulose u can build up the coats and even if the end product is dull u can using cutting compound / t cut and resin polish to bring out the shine, loads of elbow grease and patience will make the finish look professional, I use a 50 gravity gun and 100 compressor, I spray my car outside sometimes when it is hot / sun shining and no wind"

  17. #16
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    675
    Drives
    Ventora & Yanks

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    you can cut & polish 2 pack clear.

    Although for the in-the-garage/on-the-drive spraying operations celly still does the trick. Dries off quicker so you get less dust in it.

  18. #17
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Herts
    Posts
    5,972
    Drives
    Grale, Mustang, 535i

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ephid0r
    with 2 pac u cant use t cut as the laquer gives it the shine and t cut will just remove the laquer leaving it duller
    T-cut (or any other cutting compound) has exactly the same effect on Celly as with 2-pack - the abrasive removes the top layer of paint, reducing orange peel and usually improving gloss.

    Mike

  19. #18
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    MOON
    Posts
    454
    Drives
    TANK
    Thread Starter

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    WOW thanks for the info peeps

    Since this is my first respray and Im not going to have the car for that long im going with the Celly base and NO laquer top coat...This is just a big learning experience for me to see If I can mod and spray a car ..its great fun fooking about with body filler /paint and GRP to create something never seen before..

    I will be spraying the shell this weekend and the doors etc next week...Im takeing pics of each process along the way and will post them up when finished..

    Im doing some custom panal /bumper and lighting mods to my mk3 some of which have never been done /seen before so watch this space. (no tacky stuff garantee)

    Jimbo out
    MK3 astra only forum www.mk3oc.com

  20. #19
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Herts
    Posts
    5,972
    Drives
    Grale, Mustang, 535i

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    Make sure you get direct gloss not base coat as base coat will give a matt finish as it is designed to have a laquer on top (I assume celly is the same as 2-pack in that regard).

    Mike

  21. #20
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    675
    Drives
    Ventora & Yanks

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    Its usually only the metallic celly which comes as a basecoat needing lacquer. Solid colours are usually/always top coat.

    Looking forward to the pictures Jimbo Good luck. Have fun with it. Its not as hard or daunting as people make it sound talking about it. A good even pass with your spray gun, getting a good even pattern from the spray gun, and getting the prep good. Those are the three things to remember and with those three taken care of it pretty much sorts itself. Then just a good buff up and the job's a good 'un.

  22. #21
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    fghjuf
    Posts
    4,329
    Drives

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo750
    WOW thanks for the info peeps

    Since this is my first respray and Im not going to have the car for that long im going with the Celly base and NO laquer top coat...This is just a big learning experience for me to see If I can mod and spray a car ..its great fun fooking about with body filler /paint and GRP to create something never seen before..

    I will be spraying the shell this weekend and the doors etc next week...Im takeing pics of each process along the way and will post them up when finished..

    Im doing some custom panal /bumper and lighting mods to my mk3 some of which have never been done /seen before so watch this space. (no tacky stuff garantee)

    Jimbo out
    You really wanna paint ALL outwardly visable panels at the same time,this weeks paint you mix up may be a slightly different colour than next weeks.
    Plus,one thing no-one has mentioned is make sure you thouroly degrease the surface before you paint,any grease spots and the paint wont stick and you end up with little round dimples with no paint in.
    Dave

  23. #22
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    MOON
    Posts
    454
    Drives
    TANK
    Thread Starter

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    Big thanks to you lot for all the help and advice and them that sent pm's I owe you all a pint...

    The shell is done WWWOOOHHHOOO the solid celly has came up very nice and I haven't compounded it yet..

    here is a pic of the front panal with the side repeaters removed and them two horrid lines that run down the side of the car smoothed off how it should be....

    MK3 astra only forum www.mk3oc.com

  24. #23
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Herts
    Posts
    5,972
    Drives
    Grale, Mustang, 535i

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    Good job mate - glad it looks good. You'll have to get some pics up when it's all complete.

    Mike

  25. #24
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    675
    Drives
    Ventora & Yanks

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    Looking good

  26. #25
    MIGWeb User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Reading/Brighton
    Posts
    652
    Drives
    Astra Mk3 Cesaro

    Re: Cellulose + 2-Pack lacquer (clear coat) ?

    mate thats looking quality- bet you are well pleased. Is that solid black? I am doing the very same thing in the next week- going to buy all the paint thursday and start at weekend. Im doing the doors/bonnet/taligate seperately off the car and that pic has inspired me cuz I was starting think it will look pants. Nice one matey

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts