Paint Job

[Tamir]

Hi, this is aimed at those who have had paint jobs done in the past, or better still re-sprayed your own car. would you recommend me attempting a re-spray even though i have no experience. and also would it be cheaper if i sanded down each panel and then applied primer before giving it to the garage for a re-spray? finally if i do sand down the car is there any anti-rust product i could apply? thank you in advance.

[Cesaro]

im attempting a full respray end of august........its my first too so if I can do it you can to!!! Do you have all the necessary equipment and area to do it first? it will definately be cheaper if you prepped the car and then give to bodyshop (but if the finish is not brilliant you cant really complain cuz the prepping is as good as the top coat as so many people say.

ps if you do do it yourself, do it in cellulose unless you have all the proper respiritory equipment then do it in 2pack

[Mike007]

If you are going to attempt it yourself, first practice on some old panels from a breakers or something. It really helps to have the right equipment and facilities inj order to get a really good finish though.

You would save money by rubbing down and priming yourself (preparation is usually the most time consuming part), However, preparation is also the most important part and if you didn't know what you were doing the job might still be poo. Also, if there were any problems the bodyshop could easily blame them on your prep.

However, if you fancy giving it a go, once all the paint has been stripped off, wipe clean with panel wipe (at least twice) and then wipe over with tak rags. Then apply a couple of coats of chromate containing acid-etch for good adhesion and rust protection (only do this if you have some breathing apparatus though, as chromates are rather toxic!!).

Mike

[Cesaro]

mike, when you say strip all of the existing paint do you mean down to bare metal, ie. sand off all the original primer aswell?? or can you just sand it so its 'matt' as long as you do a paint 'compatability' test to ensure the paint you spray on wont react with the original?? cheers

[Mike007]

Yes, you can just do that. If you are going to do that you can just rub it down with some P400 or something to remove the gloss. Ideally you would spray on a coat or two of sealer/adhesion promoter if you did this but it's not totally essential as long as there as no compatability issues, as you say.

I assumed he intended to bare-metal it because he asked about rust-proofing.

Mike

[Cesaro]

nice one thanks Mike, just needed confirmation thats all. I may well be asking your advice come spraytime!! cheers mate, and sorry about the brief hijack Tamir

[dafz]

If you want to spray it yourself, make sure you have good equipment. You need quite a large compressor, so you can spray the whole car without having to stop to wait for it to fill up to working pressure again. (those crap electric spray guns are no good for spraying cars). You also need good pressure, this creates a finer mist and avoids splatters and drips. Finally get the best air gun you can buy. A big jar will mean that you won't have to refill with paint often, but too big will make it heavy and difficullt to use for long durations. (machine mart have a very good selection of Clarkes air guns, and used to sell Professional HVLP automotive sprayguns)

[alistairk]

Some of the electric spraying equipment is good. But its as expensive as buying a compressor anyway so you might as well get a "huffer" as that way you can drive air tools with it too!

I used a Clarke touch up gun for years but didn't like their regular size spray gun, had real problems getting good atomisation with it. I prefer SIP products, Halfords sell them but www.toolsbypost.co.uk (or www.toolsbypost.com ?) are usually much cheaper for same brand. Sealey stuff is better still (usually) and available from your local motor factor - check www.sealey.co.uk for details and catalogue.

HVLP takes a lot of air and is more expensive to buy into. If you're spraying Celly then an old school high pressure gun is fine (and cheaper). If you spray 2 pack you need a respirator and these are expensive and use a fair amount of air.

Best high pressure gun in the world (IMHO) is the Devilbiss JGA. They often turn up on eBay at good prices. if buying on eBay only buy NEW spray guns as you can't really check out a used gun properly. The JGA is a superb tool for spraying celulose and similar.

[cambridge]

im about to paint mine myself in a booth that was built for this very purpose.

most of the prep is rubbing the car down using those 3M green scotchpads (OR the foam sanding blocks in hellfrauds, matts it down a treat, and in some cases removes to the metal, and leaves the surfeace really really smooth and almost polishable lol

apparently your only supposed to use 1/8" MAX of filler otherwise you might aswell not bother. so most ot the dinks on mine have been filled with weld lmao.

[Tamir]

cheers lads for all the advice and info, i have a friend who is also a member of this site, Ali T, who will also be helping me as he has had previous experience.

[Mike007]

Best high pressure gun in the world (IMHO) is the Devilbiss JGA.

Nice old school gun. I always liked the JGA for it's ability to spray primer and topcoat/clear with the same set-up and still get a decent finish. Ended up prefering the GTi before I left my job though. Ended up prefering gravity fed and the plastic cup makes it a little lighter too.

Mike

[alistairk]

Yeah, but comparing the GTi with the JGA is like comparing DVD Audio with cassette tape. HP guns are still pretty much the deal for guys working at home with old tech paints. If you're going to spray maybe one car a year, or less, then can you justify £350 or so on a top of the line spray gun and the proper set up to use 2 pack. As soon as waterbourn clears become available and usable properly then thats the next big thing for the home sprayer. For most guys its best to wait the 2 pack thing out rather than get into the respirators and all that hassle.

Chuck celly on it with a decent HP gun and buff it the heck up. A little hard work never hurt anyone, and its not "your" car 'till you bust a sweat on it

If you can get the facilities to use 2 pack & HVLP or transtech then go for it.

Mike, seen the new GTi-W guns - :love: ideal for waterbourn metallics & pearls. reckoned to get a deeper more even metallic than the regular GTi guns. Look the biz. I want.

[Mike007]

Yeah, you can't really beat the JGA for home use - especially if you aren't too experienced in spraying. Not tried the GTI-W. I don't work there anymore. I used a Sata NR95 iirc for waterborne base coats.

The big advantage of the JGA is the wide range of fluid tips, needles and air caps that you can get - worth paying the extra over some of the very cheap guns you can get some places.

Mike

[b eatin u]

ive sprayed my car with celly but its almost like a powder finish and very dull, even when i p1200 it for what seems like ages its still pitted and orange pealish. Am i moving the gun to fast or is it the wrong setting? ive also tried different paint mixes

[Mike007]

Sounds like you sprayed it too dry. There are many reasons. Could be too ssmall fluid tip, paint too thick or moving too fast. Also not enough air pressure. What set-up were you using?

MIke

[Cesaro]

b eatin u, did you use solid colour or metallic?

[alistairk]

hit it with some 600 and see if you can get the pits / orange peel out with that before using 1200. You may need to even resort to 400.

My AMC came in with really dry/rough paint on the rear wings done by the previous owner just to make all the panels the same colour prior to me picking it up. Heck its only 2 weeks ago but I can't remember what I started with on that - I think 400 dry in a block for a quick light pass to take all the high spots off, then 600 dry then wet and then 1200 wet followed by G6 compound and its shining like a factory finish now even though it looked like it had been sprayed in a barn before. Actually, it had been sprayed in a barn.

I like to use dry in a block and wet in my hand, I can feel the finish smoothing that way, but this can still result in finger rubs unless you keep a random motion. I also find blocks more likely to rub through on swayage lines and wheelarch lips etc. although I have experimented with contoured blocks made from polystyrene packaging which had mixed results so more experiments required there.

This is why you should always put plenty of paint on! The more you put on the more you can cut it back to get it shiny after.

[b eatin u]

im using an SIP moonlight gun with 1.5mm nozzle (i think), compresor is 50L with 2hp motor (7cfm max), im sraying at about 4 bar, paint is mixed about 60paint/40 high gloss thinners. The paint is NON metalic vauxhall black. I had to flat the roof back with p600 wet with a block, it took ages and there's still craters.

i tried a slower pass on one of the rear quarters and it looked good, alot less pitting/craters but then there was big patches that were off colour - they looked oily, like when there's oil on the drive and you put water on it. grrr

its getting depressing lol

help greatly appreciated.

[alistairk]

do you have an oil filter and a moisture separator on your compressor or is it one of the newer "oil free" jobbies? (still need a water trap on an oil free though)

Oil can get from the compressor head into the tank and from there down the line to the gun. This can cause reactions in the paint job, and getting water in theres not a good thing either. (the water comes from moisture in the air which gets condensed as the air is compressed)

I'm guessing you have and oil issue or something as I can't say I've had that kind of effect myself (and I've had most problems LOL)

[b eatin u]

im using an oil free compresor and i have a water trap thing attatched to the gun.

ive just painted the roof again and most of it looks good- but there's still a couple of small patches of off colour, looks a bit white, ive checked and cleened the gun before use and there was no water in it- so what could this be?

[alistairk]

bloom? If the temperature drops suddenly before the paints gone off it can "bloom" which is a cloudiness within the paint which doesn't cut out.

Are you using anti-bloom thinners?

[b eatin u]

don't think so, it just says "high gloss celly thinners" on the tin.

so i need to paint over it?

[Mike007]

Surely bloom isn't going to be an issue at the moment?!

Mike

[leemarksmith]

you thought about the colour yet,

what about this for a paint job???



just a suggestion! lmao

[Mike007]

Seen something almost identicle with a Mazda van with an RX-8 on the side (van even had RX-8 alloys iirc). Looks amazing. If I had a van (and pots of cash!!!) I'd love to do something like that!!

Mike