Important: FOA of those who attending the rolling road day.

[Turbodave]

Ladies/Gents

Houston, we have a problem. The rolling road event we did recently is booked in for the next issue of the magazine, which means I'm currently compiling the details as we speak. The problem we have is that the figures obtained on the day were wheel figures, all well and good but we all generally work on flywheel figures.

I was told by HQ that they would calculate the flywheel figures and forward them to me but as of yet and despite several phone calls, we no further forward and basically doesn't look like we will be any time soon either.

So, that leaves us with a bit of an issue as the figures are all over the place. Many of you estimated teh flywheel figures (as would I) but it's wheel figures we have. So if you said say 260bhp, the actual figure is 180bhp which doesn't read that well. The options are:

1. I can either re-essitmate your initial figures into wheel figures using some common sense and a bit of carefull fudging! Ie, if you estimated 269bhp at the fly and ran 180bhp at the wheels, I can change your estimate to say 175bhp or thereabouts.

OR

2. I can enter the wheel figures into a on-line flywheel calculator and use them, but that's about as acurate as Stevie Wonder with a shotgun. ie, Stevie estimated 560 at the fly, it recorded 415 at the wheels and running it through the calculator gives an estimated 467bhp. However, it does not account for tranmission loos/drag etc... so pretty useless really.

Ultimately, it's going to be a bit of a clusterfcuk so I need your opinion on what you would prefer so I cane somehow salvage this.

Apologies, and cheers!

[CRA161E]

The print out I got from them read 80bhp at the wheels and when I spoke to the guy he said the at the fly he guessed that through the gearbox and the wheels he said I could put ruffly 15-20bhp on that taking me up to 95/100 bhp? This mean bugger all to me tbh and where he got the figure from I'm not sure if at was a percentage of the fact they have rolled that many Corsas on their rollers that he know what to add.

I was playing it uber safe when I estimated my fugure and went for 80bhp so I was bang on the money for wheel out put. As for what to put in the mag Option 1 sounds the better and more spot on the ball but will it be in the mag that the figures are wheel out puts and not fly? Its just I dont want Jav and the boys to give me yet another roasting on the figure lol

[Turbodave]

On the day, Russ was using a wealth of personal experience to give his own estimated flywheel figures but they weren't set in stone, merely a rough guess. It's pretty much impossible to calculate accurate flywheel figures from the wheel figures as there are so many variables involved. Unless HQ can go back and access the data from each run on the day and then calculate the fly figures (which they said they would) then it's not going to be an exact science. I've chased them up again today, but it's not looking particulary hopeful.

Using the wheel figures obtained on the day is the only accurate option we have in the meantime, all I can do is alter the "claimed" figures for thsoe of you who estimated in flywheel horsepower and torque to reflect your actual figures. Not exactly ideal but given the circumstances, I see no real alternative as using an online calculator is hopelessly inaccurate and thus, pointless. All we can do is use the wheel figures and make it very clear in the feature that they are indeed wheel figures, not flywheel figures and hoep the braindead amongst us refrain from writing in to point out the results were really low and "my Crsa VXR has 800bhp, uZ are all ****e lykes!" or words to that effect.

[CRA161E]

lmao I can see someone sending in a letter or email after not reading the feature.

On Russ, I'm glad to hear that means I can ruffly say that the corsa is in the region of 90/95bhp so I'm happy with that given that its standard as pan bread.

[Turbodave]

Ok, we don't normally do this but given the circumstances... not really any other option so if you chaps could check your details bearing in mind, the "Claimed" are conservative guessimates and the comments, well... some of you hardly spoke, some of you wouldn't shut up!

Name: Steven Hynd
Car: VXR8
Engine: 6.0 V8 supercharged
Claimed: 420bhp/400lbft
Actual: 416bhp/405lbft
Operator: Erm, jesus! Power graph is absolutely perfect and it’s producing an almost flat torque graph from around 1700rpm. Fuelling is spot on, nothing more can be said. Sounds amazing too!
Reaction: I’ve lost 20bhp since driving up from Silverstone last night, must be the increase in altitude that’s affecting it!


Name: Margaret Graham
Car: Astra VXR Nurburgring Edition
Engine: Z20LEH, standard
Claimed: 220bhp/220lbft
Actual: 226bhp/233lbft
Operator: Very good results. It hit 16PSI but isn’t holding the boost that well. I suspect the actuator has been tweaked and as a result the ECU is trying to pull the boost back. A remap would be a good investment.
Reaction: I only bought it a few weeks back, it’s the family car but I’m happy with that result. I don’t know if it’s had the actuator touched?


Name: Ian Cadden
Car: Astra Mk3
Engine: B204 Saab engine, front exit exhaust and phase 3 remap
Claimed: 200bhp/230lbft
Actual: 217bhp/242lbft
Operator: It’s hitting 18PSI overboost and holding around 16PSI, fuelling is good and the power graph is smooth. It does start to run lean towards the top, injectors are maxing out around 5000rpm.
Reaction: Not bad for a build that cost £800 in total! I’ll get the injectors sorted and try again!


Name: Neil Crouchy
Car: Astra Mk2
Engine: C20XE with T28 turbo and some other stuff.
Claimed: 220bhp/220lbft
Actual: 214bhp/215lbft
Operator: Hits and holds around 16PSI of boost nicely but it’s running a little bit lean top end. I’d check to fuel supply, new filter and ensure the pump is getting a good voltage but aside for that, very good.
Reaction: That’s good! I’ll check the fuelling but apart from that, aye… delighted.


Name: John Sumner
Car: Astra VXR
Engine: Z20LEH, EDS map, Forge front mount and Remus exhaust
Claimed: 220bhp/230lbft
Actual: 209bhp/265lbft
Operator: Running well, in fact the torque is immense. Huge boost, it hit 25PSI then dropped off to 16PSI. The fuelling is quite erratic, obviously a very safe map. The car could do a lot better if the map was tweaked.
Reaction: I’m just happy that it’s running ok… a colour coded print out too? Woohoo!


Name: Andy Gorski
Car: Tigra
Engine: C20LET, XE inlet cam, 2.5” exhaust, chipped, Cossie actuator, Saab injectors.
Claimed: 200bhp/200lbft
Actual: 202bhp/212lbft
Operator: No problems with this one either. Overboosts to 15PSI and holds 11PSI which is good but it’s fuelling very rich which will be safe, but effect the power figures. Lovely smooth graph however.
Reaction: Running rich? Ach well, least it’s safe! Cheers to my gaffer for the day off!


Name: Michael Lavelle
Car: Astra GSi
Engine: B204 Saab engine, F28 gearbox, Evo 6 FMIC, exhaust and phase 2
Claimed: More than Rick…
Actual: 178bhp/192lbft
Operator: Very nice but like the first one, the injectors have maxed out but again, fuelling and boost levels are fine. It’s hitting 15PSI then tails off to 11PSI. Produces max torque at 3600rpm too. Good starting point.
Reaction: Chuffed with that, the engine only stands me at a couple of hundred quid.


Name: Craig Dewar
Car: Corsa turbo
Engine: C20LET, phase 1 and exhaust
Claimed: 200bhp/220lbft
Actual: 163bhp/194lbft
Operator: Nice figures but it tails off dramatically after 4500rpm. It’s doesn’t seem to have an overboost facility so it’s holding around 11PSI. The fuelling is fine. I’d recommend another phase chip, it could do a lot more.
Reaction: That’s ok, I’ll get some EDS chips now I think.


Name: Brandon Murphy
Car: Corsa VXR
Engine: Z16LET standard
Claimed: 140bhp/155lbft
Actual: 158bhp/151lbft
Operator: No problems with this either, it’s obviously loosening up nicely as its gained 15bhp since the last time we ran it. Nothing more I can say really!
Reaction: Excellent, stage 2 next then!


Name: James Gill
Car: Astra OPC Estate
Engine: Z20LET, FMIC and full exhaust
Claimed: 170bhp/180lbft
Actual: 155bhp/217lbft
Operator: Typical Z20LET figures and nothing wrong with them either. Fuel and boost are fine as it’s overboosting to 16PSi and drops to 12PSI so a bit more the standard, I doubt that’s just down to the exhaust either.
Reaction: Hoped for a bit more, torque is good. Maybe it has been remapped… dunno really!


Name: Rick Paton
Car: Astra Mk3 V6
Engine: C25XE, 3.8bar FPR, 2.25” exhaust, induction kit.
Claimed: 170bhp/160lbft
Actual: 82bhp/85lbft
Operator: There’s a problem. The ECU isn’t seeing full throttle and so it’s running very lean so I aborted the run. I would suspect the throttle position sensor is faulty.
Actual: ****e! Right, I’m away to find one in a scrappy. Back shortly…


Name: Marc Craigie
Car: Corsa Gsi
Engine: X16XE, totally standard
Claimed: 80bhp/80lbft
Actual: 83bhp/85lbft
Operator: There’s not much I can say, it may have produced the lowest of the day but that’s a cracking car. It does run a bit rich, if it was a bit leaner it’d certainly do more but I would leave alone.
Reaction: Happy as a pig in ****e! Right, we going for a drive and then out on the piss?

Let me know if you want anything changed asap, I'll give this untill Monday next week then unfortunately it's too late and needs to go one way or another. With any luck HQ will come back to before then but I'm not betting my next wage packet on it.

Speak now, or forever hold your peace!

Cheers

[COO]

I think your just gonna have to quote the wheel figures from the day to compare all the cars..
As for guestimates I was hopefully vague enough for it not to matter...

I will add that my clutch may have been slipping .... dont know how much an effect that has lmao !

I trust your judgement

[Turbodave]

It's too late for excuses!

[COO]

Edit:

Name: John Sumner
Car: Astra VXR
Engine: Z20LEH, EDS map, Forge front mount and Remus exhaust
Claimed: 220bhp/230lbft
Actual: 209bhp/265lbft
Operator: Running well, in fact the torque is immense. Huge boost, it hit 25PSI then dropped off to 16PSI. The fuelling is quite erratic, obviously a very safe map. The car could do a lot better if the map was tweaked.
Reaction: I’m just happy that it’s running ok with no major problems… a colour coded print out too? Woohoo!

Rather than me looking half daft and say "it's running ok" after Russ describes the "fueling as erratic".....can I add the red bit !!!

Cheers

[Turbodave]

Done

[Melv]

Just Neil's surname I'm correcting. My writing must have been crap lmao

Name: Neil Crouchley
Car: Astra Mk2
Engine: C20XE with T28 turbo and some other stuff.
Claimed: 220bhp/220lbft
Actual: 214bhp/215lbft
Operator: Hits and holds around 16PSI of boost nicely but it’s running a little bit lean top end. I’d check to fuel supply, new filter and ensure the pump is getting a good voltage but aside for that, very good.
Reaction: That’s good! I’ll check the fuelling but apart from that, aye… delighted.

[Turbodave]

Also done

[anniman1]

hq said my tigra was running lean and pulling the boost back. not rich as above but the rest is fine. i've since found out the chassis leg on the drivers side is ripped open so i think its going to be a new shell

[Turbodave]

Your graph would suggest otherwise! I'll double check it tommorrow... or actually, in about 5hrs.

Gotta love drinking coffee at bed time. D'oh!

[mickygsi]

id just quote wheel figures and put up a statement how much percent was lost through transmission etc,my details are ok

[Turbodave]

I've had a reply from Russ at HQ this morning. They don't have a system to accurately calculate the flywheel horsepower as of yet but are working on it. For the time being, Russ has said he will go back through everybodies results and using his experience and some calculated guess work, can give a fairly accurate estimate for each car. If that's the case, we'll still use the wheel horsepower but in brackets can add the estimated "pub talk" figure although we can't use these for the dyno league.

Cheers

[Turbodave]

Ok chaps, update time:

Name: Steven Hynd
Car: VXR8
Engine: 6.0 V8 supercharged
Claimed: 420bhp/400lbft
Actual: 416bhp/405lbft
Estimated fly: 496bhp/469ft/lbs
Operator: Power graph is absolutely perfect and it’s producing an almost flat torque graph from around 1700rpm. Fuelling is spot on, nothing more can be said. Sounds amazing too!
Reaction: I’ve lost 20bhp since driving up from Silverstone last night, must be the increase in altitude that’s affecting it!

Name: Margaret Graham
Car: Astra VXR Nurburgring Edition
Engine: Z20LEH, standard
Claimed: 220bhp/220lbft
Actual: 226bhp/233lbft
Estimated fly: 282bhp/278ft/lbs
Operator: Very good results. It hit 16PSI but isn’t holding the boost that well. I suspect the actuator has been tweaked and as a result the ECU is trying to pull the boost back. A remap would be a good investment.
Reaction: I only bought it a few weeks back, it’s the family car but I’m happy with that result. I don’t know if it’s had the actuator touched?


Name: Ian Cadden
Car: Astra Mk3
Engine: B204 Saab engine, front exit exhaust and phase 3 remap
Claimed: 200bhp/230lbft
Actual: 217bhp/242lbft
Estimated fly: 273bhp/287ft/lbs
Operator: It’s hitting 18PSI overboost and holding around 16PSI, fuelling is good and the power graph is smooth. It does start to run lean towards the top, injectors are maxing out around 5000rpm.
Reaction: Not bad for a build that cost £800 in total! I’ll get the injectors sorted and try again!


Name: Neil Crouchley
Car: Astra Mk2
Engine: C20XE with T28 turbo and some other stuff.
Claimed: 220bhp/220lbft
Actual: 214bhp/215lbft
Estimated fly: 267bhp/257ft/lbs
Operator: Hits and holds around 16PSI of boost nicely but it’s running a little bit lean over 3700rpm. I’d check to fuel supply, new filter and ensure the pump is getting a good voltage but aside for that, very good.
Reaction: That’s good! I’ll check the fuelling but apart from that, aye… delighted.


Name: John Sumner
Car: Astra VXR
Engine: Z20LEH, EDS map, Forge front mount and Remus exhaust
Claimed: 220bhp/230lbft
Actual: 209bhp/265lbft
Estimated fly: 265bhp/311ft/lbs
Operator: Running well, in fact the torque is immense. Huge boost, it hit 25PSI then dropped off to 16PSI. The fuelling is quite erratic, very rich top end, a safe map. The car could do a lot better if the map was tweaked.
Reaction: I’m just happy that it’s running ok with no major issues… a colour coded print out too? Woohoo!


Name: Andy Gorski
Car: Tigra
Engine: C20LET, XE inlet cam, 2.5” exhaust, chipped, Cossie actuator, Saab injectors.
Claimed: 200bhp/200lbft
Actual: 202bhp/212lbft
Estimated fly: 248bhp/249ft/lbs
Operator: No problems with this one either. Overboosts to 15PSI and holds 11PSI which is good but it’s running lean top end.. Lovely smooth graph however.
Reaction: Running lean? Ach well, least it survived! Cheers to my gaffer for the day off!


Name: Michael Lavelle
Car: Astra GSi
Engine: B204 Saab engine, F28 gearbox, Evo 6 FMIC, exhaust and phase 2
Claimed: More than Rick…
Actual: 178bhp/192lbft
Estimated fly: 228bhp/232ft/lbs
Operator: Very nice but like the first one, the injectors have maxed out but again, fuelling and boost levels are fine. It’s hitting 15PSI then tails off to 11PSI. Produces max torque at 3600rpm too. Good starting point.
Reaction: Chuffed with that, the engine only stands me at a couple of hundred quid.


Name: Craig Dewar
Car: Corsa turbo
Engine: C20LET, phase 1 and exhaust
Claimed: 200bhp/220lbft
Actual: 163bhp/194lbft
Estimated fly: 219bhp/239ft/lbs
Operator: Nice figures but it tails off dramatically after 4500rpm. It’s doesn’t seem to have an overboost facility so it’s holding around 11PSI. The fuelling is fine. I’d recommend another phase chip, it could do a lot more.
Reaction: That’s ok, I’ll get some EDS chips now I think.


Name: Brandon Murphy
Car: Corsa VXR
Engine: Z16LET standard
Claimed: 140bhp/155lbft
Actual: 158bhp/151lbft
Estimated fly: 208bhp/191ft/lbs
Operator: No problems with this either, it’s obviously loosening up nicely as its gained 15bhp since the last time we ran it. Nothing more I can say really!
Reaction: Excellent, stage 2 next then!


Name: James Gill
Car: Astra OPC Estate
Engine: Z20LET, FMIC and full exhaust
Claimed: 170bhp/180lbft
Actual: 155bhp/217lbft
Estimated fly: 215bhp/265ft/lbs
Operator: Typical Z20LET figures and nothing wrong with them either. Fuel and boost are fine as it’s overboosting to 16PSi and drops to 12PSI so a bit more the standard, I doubt that’s just down to the exhaust either.
Reaction: Hoped for a bit more, torque is good. Maybe it has been remapped… dunno really!


Name: Rick Paton
Car: Astra Mk3 V6
Engine: C25XE, 3.8bar FPR, 2.25” exhaust, induction kit.
Claimed: 170bhp/160lbft
Actual: 82bhp/85lbft
Estimated fly: 142bhp/133ft/lbs
Operator: There’s a problem. The ECU isn’t seeing full throttle and so it’s running very lean so I aborted the run. I would suspect the throttle position sensor is faulty.
Actual: ****e! Right, I’m away to find one in a scrappy. Back shortly…


Name: Marc Craigie
Reg: M637 ONC
Engine: X16XE, totally standard
Claimed: 80bhp/80lbft
Actual: 83bhp/85lbft
Estimated fly: 119bhp/114ft/lbs
Operator: There’s not much I can say, it may have produced the lowest of the day but that’s a cracking car. It does run a bit rich, if it was a bit leaner it’d certainly do more but I would leave alone.
Reaction: Happy as a pig in ****e! Right, we going for a drive and then out on the piss?




Estimated figures are in bold... please don't shoot the messenger!

Cheers!

[neil105]

Happy with that cheers

[turbo_nik]

Dont shoot me down for this Dave,but from a readers point of view,the est figures between Marcs car and Ricks car are quite far apart,even though the actual figures are near enough the same.

[stevievxr8]

dave its just come up from walkinshaws not silverstone m8

[Turbodave]

Last two comments... noted and sorted.

Cheers gents!