HELP Car died and wont re start.

[pineapplesport]

hi folks new here thought u guys might be abble to help.I have a 1996 1.8 sport astra.1 day i reversed out of a parking spot and stopped put it in first and went to pull away the car died.i have tried everything i can think of i put a tech 1 on but no data reading came up and i have no ecu light coming on or cant hear fuel pump when i checked for a spark at the plugs when i turn ignition on it sparks breifly then stops turn the key and crank over nothing so now i am on here for info as to what it might be or sugestions

many thanks

[cmac86]

Check all the lives and Earths on the ECU loom and earth's to the body of the car.

Or seeing as its an Ecotec, I'd maybe check out the trusty Crank and Cam sensors. Unplug them one at a time, this will put the ECU light on but it might start and run on the limp home mode. Maybe worth a shot? It will be something silly no doubt.

[MSG]

Could well be your crank sensor, first check its connector hasn't jerked itself out of connection!! where it connects to the main loom. Possibly around the air ducting area.

[pineapplesport]

Check all the lives and Earths on the ECU loom and earth's to the body of the car.

Or seeing as its an Ecotec, I'd maybe check out the trusty Crank and Cam sensors. Unplug them one at a time, this will put the ECU light on but it might start and run on the limp home mode. Maybe worth a shot? It will be something silly no doubt.

thanks mate will give that a go tonight fingers crossed

[pineapplesport]

Could well be your crank sensor, first check its connector hasn't jerked itself out of connection!! where it connects to the main loom. Possibly around the air ducting area.

thanks mate will try that the night i know its going to be something silly and its weird why the ecu light aint coming on when turning it over

it seems to be turning over as normal not any fast nor slower

[pineapplesport]

tried both sensors still nothing changed them both any other sugestions

[MSG]

try a new FPR relay, it may have gone wrong. If you don't fancy spending unnecessary money on a new FPR and wants to diagnose if the one you have works or not you can follow a certain procedure mentioned elsewhere on Mig. Do a search otherwise it means you got to get a new FPR and then it might not be it. a bit of a gamble, but to diagnose one you need to have amultimeter. and some basisc about how to use one.

[pineapplesport]

now an FPR for the fuel pump i understand but will that stop the spark at the plugs??

[MSG]

i belive it does though i wouldn't put my life on it, but you said you are getting the spark for a few seconds and then it stops, and depending on the car, I don't personally have a fisrt hand experience on your particular car , but based on general principle, take for instant my manta, its FPR is different to the one used in a calibra, on the Manta it requires a pulse from the ignition coil to keep it energised or else it cuts out the fuel supply leaving the spark uneffected, so not really sure what type of relay you have on yours, perhaphs you can describe it by stating how many pins you can see on it and hown big is it physically and possibly read the number on it.

[pineapplesport]

i belive it does though i wouldn't put my life on it, but you said you are getting the spark for a few seconds and then it stops, and depending on the car, I don't personally have a fisrt hand experience on your particular car , but based on general principle, take for instant my manta, its FPR is different to the one used in a calibra, on the Manta it requires a pulse from the ignition coil to keep it energised or else it cuts out the fuel supply leaving the spark uneffected, so not really sure what type of relay you have on yours, perhaphs you can describe it by stating how many pins you can see on it and hown big is it physically and possibly read the number on it.

according to the haynes bible the fuel relay in next to the ecu and i changed it still nothing MSG . as for the manta r u in the opel manta owners club? nothing to do with my problem right enough haha

[MSG]

Wonder if your problem could be the fuel pump itself or the fuse, have you checked these first ? fuse, and then see if you could run the fuel pump directly by applying a positive 12V to the pump hot connection, the other one would be earthed to chassis, it should hum when running, and then see if the fuel rail presurises and (squirt fuel from the test nipple) and your engine starts hopefully .

[pineapplesport]

will try that tommorrow MSG there is defo no presure at the rail as i checked the nipple there out of curiosity but i still dont get how fuel pump being down could stop spark sorry am i being dumb or is it late lol

[MSG]

Hence why I thought it ,might be the crank sensor, as your spark also stopped, but who knows, the FPR may well be responsible for the missing spark. If I am not mistaken, in some cars the FPR set up feeds back when stage 1 of the FPR switches on first before it switches the stage 2 which sends power to the fuel pump, so if your stage 1 fails then stage 2 cannot trip in, stage one perhaps is responsible for the ignition part of the system, such as +12V to the injector rail common supply, and + 12v supply to the oxygen sensor and part of this voltage also feeds back into the ECU which must sense if the stage 1 has failed then it would perhaphs stop the spark signals.

If your FPR is the same as used in a Calibra, then i can help you determine if it is functioning ok. so let me know what kind of FPR relay do you have like what pin numbers are indicated on its base or on the relay itself and if you can let me have the wire colours coming of the various pins then I could tell if its the same and help you diagnose. the chances are you might have been looking at a different relay. FPR relay is usually longer than most other relays and in black housing with about 6 connections and has two seperate relays in the same housing.

[cmac86]

What about a duff Coilpack? ALthough you think the ECU light would come on with that. Does the ECU light actually work at any other time?

[Gaz86]

sounds like an imobiliser, have you checked the wiring in the footwell AND at the ignition barrel for signals when the key is turned?

[pineapplesport]

thanks guys will give them a go
any idea where the fpr is on the astra ?
msg as soon as i know where it is i will let ya know wot runs from it mate thanks for ur patience much apreciated

[rick151081]

sounds like a dogy ignition switch to me

[pineapplesport]

MSG here goes its a 6 pin relay gm 90378651
pin 1) blue / brown
pin2)thick red
pin3)thin red
pin4)red/blue
pin8)thick red/light blue
pin9)brown/green

pin numbers on relay
pin1)86
pin2)30
pin3)85
pin4)87b
pin8)87
pin9)85b
hope this all makes sence

[pineapplesport]

thanks for ur input rick wot makes ya thing dodgy ignition switch mate

[MSG]

MSG here goes its a 6 pin relay gm 90378651
pin 1) blue / brown
pin2)thick red
pin3)thin red
pin4)red/blue
pin8)thick red/light blue
pin9)brown/green

pin numbers on relay
pin1)86
pin2)30
pin3)85
pin4)87b
pin8)87
pin9)85b
hope this all makes sence

That is exactly same as the Calibra or shall I say same as what vauxhalls typical layout for an FPR, so i can help you diagnose if it is this relay or something else that might be playing up.

So bear with me, and I will either PM you or post here cut and paste my own diagnostics I wrote a while back, save me having to retype all over again.

But I don't rule out what gaz said about immobiliser and other issues as well like the coil pack dieing suddenly, as said by cmac86, that can play a sudden part in your car not starting.

[pineapplesport]

thanks MSG for ur help i have done the crank sensor and cam sensor so will try ur stuff as its sounding along these lines failing that it has a toad in it this is working but never been a fan of this so its coming out anyway and as for the coil pack if i rule out the fpr then i can move on to the coil etc thanks again in advance

[MSG]

pin 1) blue / brown (
pin2)thick red
pin3)thin red
pin4)red/blue
pin8)thick red/light blue
pin9)brown/green

pin numbers on relay

pin1)86 (Check this again pin 1 is suppose to be 85 and not 86) This is your stage 1 operation, you should get this pin go Negative or 0v, when you turn your ignition ON, and may go high if not resumed cranking within a certain time after ignition is switched on, so check it while cranking, this pin goes from +12V to 0v when ign is switched on and when cranking the engine, if it doesn't then that explains you have some problem and the ecu is not switching it low (0v), so this could be due to a crank signal not getting into the ECU or some other dodgy connections somewhere along the sensor cables to the ECU and from it to the relay.


pin2)30 you should ( see +12V on this all the time, even when the ignition is off) ( thick red wire)

pin3)85 (Check this again pin 3 is suppose to be 86 and not 85) You should see +12V on this pin all the time even when ignition is off ) (thin red wire)


pin4)87b (this is your stage 2 output +12V to the fuel pump, the feed from here goes to your fuel pump fuse first and then continue to the fuel pump +ve terminal, so make sure you are getting a +12V at the fuel pump when cranking the engine and assuming your fuse is intact. get someone to crank the engine when checking this under the car depending on where your fuel pump is mounted.( this would be a thin red/blue wire.) Ensure that you the pump connections are sound and free from corrosion and the pump has a good earth connection.


pin8)87 This is stage 1 output, it feeds +12v to all the 4 injectors, and also supplies the +12v to the oxygen sensor as well as the MAF sensor. It also feed the +12v into the ECU for the em light and as a feed back to the ECU that stage 1 has operated. (it is a red/blue thick wire. and may also have a thinner wire as well which goes back to the ecu)


pin9)85b the ecu switches this pin to 0v when engine is being cranked. and stay low when running. (can be thin brown blue or brown/green)
if it does not the problem can be same as described for pin 1)



(Please advice or correct if I have made any errors, i am not God)

[pineapplesport]

thanks for this i will try this over the weekend and let ya know how i get on many thanks

AND DOH I GOT PIN ! AND £ ROUND THE WRONG WAY UR SPOT ON MATE THANKS

[pineapplesport]

pin 1 and 3 even lol typo

[rick151081]

well ive had the same problem and it was just one of the wires on the back of the ignition switch had come lose changed it and all was good so i fought id let you no so you could check it mate as i went right through my car to find out it was just the ignition swich the black wire comes lose on the back and where the key gose in and out over time it works lose and stops making contact