HELP Car died and wont re start.

[pineapplesport]

thanks rick will check that out willing to try anything right now as i have the bottom dash out and wires loom clips screws everywhere at the stage i wonder where and how does it all go back haha

[pineapplesport]

msg sorry mate not had time to check out ur run down getting the transponder checked tommorrow vauxhall tech seems to think thats where my problem is if not he said as long as i got dash lights he can sorse my fault fingers crossed will post the results

[MSG]

On my Calibra, if there was a problem with the immobiliser, then this would make the em light start flshing as you attempt cranking, I know this for sure as recently when i had to replace my steering lock, I had temporariliy left the ignition transponder collar out and tried starting the engine and the em light started to flash, and when I brought the collar back it started Ok, and the funny thing is onec an engine has started you can then remove the collar and it will remain on and not cut out, so in other words the collar is needed initially to read the transponder code and then signals the ecu to perform its task.

So you certainly may have some issues with your immobiliser, first of all you need to get all your wires sorted out as in your other post you mentioned all wires hangging loose under your dash, so quite possibly one of the wires may be not placed back or not connected or dropped out or something, so you will need to check one by one all wires are destined to correct locations.

You have ruled out the em light bulb, I hope, and that you may have tested it outside, but make sure it is making proper contacts when inserted in its holder.

[pineapplesport]

[QUOTE=MSG;4309491]pin 1) blue / brown (
pin2)thick red
pin3)thin red
pin4)red/blue
pin8)thick red/light blue
pin9)brown/green

pin numbers on relay

pin1)86 (Check this again pin 1 is suppose to be 85 and not 86) This is your stage 1 operation, you should get this pin go Negative or 0v, when you turn your ignition ON, and may go high if not resumed cranking within a certain time after ignition is switched on, so check it while cranking, this pin goes from +12V to 0v when ign is switched on and when cranking the engine, if it doesn't then that explains you have some problem and the ecu is not switching it low (0v), so this could be due to a crank signal not getting into the ECU or some other dodgy connections somewhere along the sensor cables to the ECU and from it to the relay.


pin2)30 you should ( see +12V on this all the time, even when the ignition is off) ( thick red wire)

pin3)85 (Check this again pin 3 is suppose to be 86 and not 85) You should see +12V on this pin all the time even when ignition is off ) (thin red wire)


pin4)87b (this is your stage 2 output +12V to the fuel pump, the feed from here goes to your fuel pump fuse first and then continue to the fuel pump +ve terminal, so make sure you are getting a +12V at the fuel pump when cranking the engine and assuming your fuse is intact. get someone to crank the engine when checking this under the car depending on where your fuel pump is mounted.( this would be a thin red/blue wire.) Ensure that you the pump connections are sound and free from corrosion and the pump has a good earth connection.


pin8)87 This is stage 1 output, it feeds +12v to all the 4 injectors, and also supplies the +12v to the oxygen sensor as well as the MAF sensor. It also feed the +12v into the ECU for the em light and as a feed back to the ECU that stage 1 has operated. (it is a red/blue thick wire. and may also have a thinner wire as well which goes back to the ecu)


pin9)85b the ecu switches this pin to 0v when engine is being cranked. and stay low when running. (can be thin brown blue or brown/green)
if it does not the problem can be same as described for pin 1)

HERE GOES MSG READINGS R HIGH DUE TO JUMP LEADS BEING CONNECTED BUT HOPE U CAN WORK IT OUT HERE GOES

ignition off --------------------------- cranking
13v------ pin1)blue/brown -------- 13v
13v------ pin2)thick red -------------13v
13v------ pin3)thin red --------------13v
0v ------ pin4)red/blue -------------0.19v
1.7v----- pin8)thick red/light blue ---2v
1.7v ----- pin9)brown/green -------- 2v

Now i bridged pin 2 with pin 4 and fuel pump worked(so i know the pump is good) and strangly the eml came on (so i know the bulb is working) turned the ignition off and back on and the light went out and wouldnt come back on but fuel pump still pumped.
now pin 1 should zero out whilst cranking but didnt so am i looking for a NEW ECU? or a fault else where ??????

[MSG]

From your readings given above, check to see that you do not have a break in the wire from ECU pin 36 and pin 1 on the FPR, as the reading should be around 0v (+/- 1v) when cranking.

Readings on pin 2 & 3 are about right although when cranking the reading would have gone below 13v due to starter motor loading on battery so anything like 10V onwards is ok.

Pin 4 (red/blue) is obviously not switching on when cranking so should have gone to over 10v or more when cranking. thats because the relay is not switching on due to the missing 0v at the pin 1 of the relay.


Now the reading on pins 8 & 9 are as expected but these readings are false, because you are measuring it with vehicle earth as the ground reference, so you are mearly looking at stray voltage. when cranking the voltage should be above 10v - 13V on pin 8 and near 0v on pin 9 , so in all the problem is the stage 1 relay of the FPR is not coming on due to either the connection between the ecu pin 36 and relay pin 1 is broken either as a fault or deliberately for routing this wire connection via an aftermarket alrm relay contacts.






Buzz out the continuity between pin 36 on the ecu and the pin 1 on the rleay, if it does not buzz, then use a piece of wire to link the two points and see if it comes on now (the FPR relay and the fuel pump)

[pineapplesport]

cheers for the fast reply many thanks i will try that the mora mate it got a toad alarm fitted back in 2000 but i didnt notice any wires cut around the area of the fpr but will give the wire buzz a go cheers

[pineapplesport]

[QUOTE=MSG;4317128]From your readings given above, check to see that you do not have a break in the wire from ECU pin 36 and pin 1 on the FPR, as the reading should be around 0v (+/- 1v) when cranking.

Readings on pin 2 & 3 are about right although when cranking the reading would have gone below 13v due to starter motor loading on battery so anything like 10V onwards is ok.

Pin 4 (red/blue) is obviously not switching on when cranking so should have gone to over 10v or more when cranking. thats because the relay is not switching on due to the missing 0v at the pin 1 of the relay.


Now the reading on pins 8 & 9 are as expected but these readings are false, because you are measuring it with vehicle earth as the ground reference, so you are mearly looking at stray voltage. when cranking the voltage should be above 10v - 13V on pin 8 and near 0v on pin 9 , so in all the problem is the stage 1 relay of the FPR is not coming on due to either the connection between the ecu pin 36 and relay pin 1 is broken either as a fault or deliberately for routing this wire connection via an aftermarket alrm relay contacts.






Buzz out the continuity between pin 36 on the ecu and the pin 1 on the rleay, if it does not buzz, then use a piece of wire to link the two points and see if it comes on now (the FPR relay and the fuel pump)[/QUOTE
__________________________________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________--

the mystery continues fpr pin 1 wire does not match up with pin 36 on ecu the wire matches think it was pin 16 ish on ecu but no buzz but checked continuity and it was fine from fpr to ecu

[MSG]

Firstly, when checking continuity, make sure your meter reads as close to zero ohms, if it reads a few hundred ohms over then it is likely the continuity is being seen as passing through another circuit such as the relay coil, there is a connection betwenn pin 1of FPR and pin 16 of ECU, but only as a current path through a relay coil of the FPR, so don't get mislead, a true continuity would read very very close to zero ohms for example it may read 0.02ohms or 0.03ohms and not 216ohms for instance.

A buzzer continuity tester on most multimeters will not buzz if the continuity path has some resistance in it above a certain ohms, each multimeter has its own standard, some will not buzz out if the continuity resistance is above 20 ohms. others may still buzz out even at 200 ohms.

thirdly when i quoted in my previous thread

"Now the reading on pins 8 & 9 are as expected but these readings are false, because you are measuring it with vehicle earth as the ground reference, so you are mearly looking at stray voltage."

you must understand what i mean by that, and why this reading is false, so the main reason is that what you are reading is a voltage on a wire e.g. pins 8 or pin 9 both of which are neither switched to negative nor to positive so the wire is said to be floating, and will pick up stray (capacitively and inductively) voltages from other electrical circuits nearby, this is because the relay contact is open, so the wire is not switched through the contact to positive, and so when the contact is open, it is neither connected to negative. its just floating between the two andnso will show some residual voltage of just a few volts above zero like in your example it is showing as 1.7v and 2v when cranking !!


finally, make sure when buzzing for testing continuity of wiring, the ignition should be switched off, and it would be a good practice to disconnect battery positive.

[MSG]

the mystery continues fpr pin 1 wire does not match up with pin 36 on ecu the wire matches think it was pin 16 ish on ecu but no buzz but checked continuity and it was fine from fpr to ecu Reply Reply With Quote

You are trying to match or test the continuity of Pin1 of the relay to the pin 36 of the ecu, when you did not register this continuity, you must have tried to see where else it may be connected, so you saw some reading on your meter indicating some continuity at pin 16 on the ecu, but as I said make sure this continuity is very very close to Zero ohms, if it is any higher than say 1 ohms then you are not truely looking at a direct match but an indirect match through another circuit. so please confirm what reading did you get, if you did get very close to zero Ohms, then this may indicate the wire was connecetd to the wrong pins.

I am assuming you are running a Motronic M2.5 ecu, which shows that pin 8 of the relay would be connected to pin 16 of the ecu via the injector, so you would get some continuity of a few ohms through the injector as an indirect connection and not as a direct connection, you need to estrablish a DIRECT reading of zero ohms between relay pin 1 ecu pin 36 and pin 9 of the relay and pin 3 of the ecu., therse two are crucial to bring on the relay.

[pineapplesport]

thanks msg its a friend who has the meter and wire know how as i am useless with electrics will pass this info on and try again tonight.i take it ur a sparky as u know loads about electrics

[MSG]

indeed I am but without the sparks!! (lol)

A good electrician don't cause any sparks!! but when I was 12, I wired a bedside pendent switch to facilitate my Grand mother to switch on or off her bedroom light from her bedside, this was 44 years ago!! and after finishing wiring it, I asked her to try it grandma! and as she pressed the button it went wooosh and crackles everywhere along the wire and lots of smoke and then went bang! and as the fuse was wired with a thick wire it did not blow and the whole street fuse went blackening out the whole street! relax, this was back in Kenya!!

That was my first and last adventure!! she survived!! I ran away!! since then I am established as an experienced electrician for nearly 45 years!!

[pineapplesport]

just another thing looking around on the net for ecu's there is alot of "ecu for astra's" under the bonnet one's my one is in the driver's kick panel

[pineapplesport]

indeed I am but without the sparks!! (lol)

A good electrician don't cause any sparks!! but when I was 12, I wired a bedside pendent switch to facilitate my Grand mother to switch on or off her bedroom light from her bedside, this was 44 years ago!! and after finishing wiring it, I asked her to try it grandma! and as she pressed the button it went wooosh and crackles everywhere along the wire and lots of smoke and then went bang! and as the fuse was wired with a thick wire it did not blow and the whole street fuse went blackening out the whole street! relax, this was back in Kenya!!

That was my first and last adventure!! she survived!! I ran away!! since then I am established as an experienced electrician for nearly 45 years!!

HAHA makes me feel a lot safer now thanks for that "TAXI" lol ecu is simtec 56 .siemens RV95002

[pineapplesport]

ok guys i have bitten the bullet and bought an ecu,transponder and key will post the result after i get it should be here the morra fingers crosed its the parts i need lol