OH NO! another bike carb thread, 1800 small block

[tom reid]

Iv'e been looking to do this conversion for a couple of years, but with being busy with other things it's sort of been on the back burner.
And with the old addage of "feast or famine", we have three engines with varying degrees of mods to run on R1 carbs.
I have to say that lee303's thread has been a bit of an inspiration, but I'm not planning on going to the same extremes as his engine.
So, the three engines are all 1800, there's a bog standard one, just been rebuilt with new pistons, lightened and balanced internals and a modified sump, we're going to run the 1600/16v four branch exhaust manifold on this one, it'll be mated to a std F15 gearbox, then ther's the 1800 built into a 1600/16v block, that has had new std e18xe1 pistons, bored block obviously, and again lightend and bal internals and it has a 1600se 8v head to start off with, this one'll run a std cr f13 box with a 3.7 diff.
The third one will again be 1800 block, new std pistons, steel rods, l & b, race flywheel and paddle clutch, we're currently working on this and looking to do something a little different with the head, nothing too extreme, but I'll hold on to the details for now, it might not work!

So here's the std engine, but as with any project theres a bit of work to do before the car's ready for it.
[IMG][/IMG]
The car, a 1600 Corsa Sport, it had a tired 2ltr xe removed.
[IMG][/IMG]

[Joker]

good stuff, can't beat a bike carb thread! - gives me inspiration for my project.

[_Tomiboy]

Hi!
Nice project.
Have You pictures from the SE? I have z18xe in my corsa b, but i have complete c14se engine, and will bore and stroke to 1.8 with x18xe1 internals.
Tomi

[toymex]

Come on Tom pull your finger out i want to see what they go like lmao
Got to have a word with Andy ,i havent got an AT race engine sticker on mine.
Cheers for the help with the head mate i will be up north sometime this year at a trackday and will take you out to see what a full race AT lump goes like

[lee303]

AT?

interesting thread though, did you need to take much out the crankcase on the 1600 for it to have enough clearance? i know its bloody tight in that block with the 1800 crank, and the one with steel rods, didn’t fancy a set of pistons too?

[tom reid]

Hi Tom, pics of the 1800 in 1600 block tomorrow.

Jez, me get my finger out??, is yours back together yet??????, I'm looking forward to a run in your car, it sounds just like a BDA, and if your'e coming north, you'll have to do something with that southern accent, lol.

Lee, AT, is Andy Tedder, he builds/engineers competition engines, a very good friend, taught me everything I know, he was my personal interweb before the web existed. also known as The Guru, Cookie Monster, he'll do almost anything for chocolate chip cookieslmao
The crank is very close to the crank case, but clears enough not to worry, the nose of the cank was machined down to suit the 1600 oil pump, and a bit of modification to the splash plate was all that was needed. As for the fancy pistons, yes I was very tempted, and may indeed still arrive.

[tom reid]

Tom, pics of the 1600 blocked engine, no build/internal pics though
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

Also had some flanges cut recently, 10mm thick ally, these are going to the fabricator along with the 1800 sump.
I'm a little concerned that the 1800 sump will sit deeper in the car, might have issues with ground clerarance on lowered cars, but I'll have one done, just to see.
[IMG][/IMG]

Theres not a lot of room between the 1600 manifold and the 1800 sump.
[IMG][/IMG]

We also got rid of the belt adjuster, made some SBD type idlers and adjust the belt on the water pump.
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

[lee303]

looking good, i guess theres little more room with stock rods rather than steels, i know you need to get the burr out if you run steels in a 1600 block with the 18 crank

didn’t spot the 8valve head till just now, lol, be interesting to see what that makes!

[tom reid]

It's actually got 1400 rods Lee.
Im not really into numbers, but all three engines will have a session on the rollers.
The 8v head was really a last minute thing as we don't yet have the big valves for the 16v head, so we thought "why not try it with an 8v head first", this one is std se with an ast1 cam, new springs etc, the next 8v head will have big valves, ported and a rally cam of some sort, then we'll try a std 16v head and then a worked 16v head and cams with big valves, thats assuming the bottom end holds out.

[_Tomiboy]

Thanks the pictures!
I broke 2 times my 1.8 sump, then have changed to 1.6.
Is the 1.4 rod not too weak?

[peester]

3 of them?! lol
As mentioned, your spot on about clearance issues with the 1.8 sump. A 1.6 sump is over 1 inch shallower at the front end , but the same depth at the back end. But with engine sitting cantered back as they are in the 'bay it should be ok. Just remember to shorten dipstick/pickup and possibly baffles need trimming for the swap.
However, youre two up/two down (4-on-a-dice) manifold will need changing too thats the lowest part of the car by a mile.
Suffered the same issues myself you see with my 1.8.

[tom reid]

Thanks the pictures!
I broke 2 times my 1.8 sump, then have changed to 1.6.
Is the 1.4 rod not too weak?

So the sump could be an issue, might have a look at moving the engine/box slightly higher in the car, if only so as I can use std sump, I don't mind modding bits and bob's, but I'd rather use as much std parts as possible.
1400/1600/ rods seem to come in two different shapes, some are the same as the 1800 rods under the gudgeon pin, others seem to have more material there, so used the latter ones, too weak?, we'll soon find out.

[tom reid]

3 of them?! lol
As mentioned, your spot on about clearance issues with the 1.8 sump. A 1.6 sump is over 1 inch shallower at the front end , but the same depth at the back end. But with engine sitting cantered back as they are in the 'bay it should be ok. Just remember to shorten dipstick/pickup and possibly baffles need trimming for the swap.
However, youre two up/two down (4-on-a-dice) manifold will need changing too thats the lowest part of the car by a mile.
Suffered the same issues myself you see with my 1.8.

lmao, as I said " feast or famine", at least we'll get the information about performance advantages faster.
Thanks for the heads up, had noticed that when comparing the two side buy side.
I have a few other manifolds to try, so that shouldn't be an issue.
What do you think of the performance of your's?, is it std/modded?, have you had a 1600/16v in the car previously?, any views on the difference's between the two?

[peester]

I had forgot to mention to check out warren g's burg corsa b build on here - he fitted a 1.6 sump to a z18xe with some photos..

I went from a standard x14xe straight to the current z18xe on jenvey itb's so its going to feel a different kettle of fish.. But the 1.8's having more torque naturally, as well as a few bhp advantage too it just feels in standard form like a tuned x14/x16.. Just gives you that headstart i guess.
It should feel like redtop power from a small block, pretty much.. the 1.8 may end up just shy figures-wise of an equiv. c20xe but dont think youde notice it on the road.

[tom reid]

Back to the Corsa, remove ABS wiring and pump.
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

The 1800 8v is going in my old Nova.
Since it was sold it has been used almost daily, during the winters as well, and all the bits that didn't need doing in 04/05 now do need doing.
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
With the n/s done, I thiought I'd surprise the owner of the car, Danny, we were talking about a small arch kit I had, he thought it would look good on his car, so...
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

[j2cams]

goodman tom keeper lit

[_Tomiboy]

What is the compression ration in the 8v? Have you machined from the head? What head gasket do you use?

[tom reid]

Compression ratio is 11:1, head has been skimmed as have pistons and used a Payen gasket.

[tom reid]

On to the cyl heads
Most of the 1800 heads Iv'e bought have had funked valve guides, so got a set of 5mm guides set off a friendly reconditioner, he gave us them without knowing the price,"pay me later, when I get the price".
So a while later he gave us the bill...... 96quid!, for a set of guides FFS.
So went and bought the kit to fit these, with the reasoning of a few sets of guides at the above prices would more than pay for the kit, plus 100 liners
Valve guide liners
[IMG]
[/IMG]
So in they go
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
They are much quicker to fit than guides, cost less and should give the same life as a std guide.
Also visited Geoff at Autosprint on Sat and had a small spree
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

[tom reid]

I'm bolloxed with trying to do two cars at the same time, so decided to concentrate on the Nova just now.
Danny, the owner decided to jack the car up on the rear mounting point, lol, thats what led to all the welding.
The bottom of the passenger sill was rotten, so fixed that, we can now jack the car up anywhere on both sides, they are that strong, might seem a bit over kill, but they won't need doing for a good few years now.
[IMG][/IMG]

The car originally only needed a freshen up in the engine bay
I'd previously cut out the driver's chassis leg, before it had a 2ltr xe fitted, and plated it with 4mm sheet, this made working in the cam belt area much easier.
Engine bay pics
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
and etched primed
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
painted
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

[gsigav]

looking smart pal i have been looking into doing the bike carb think on a c16xe but dont really know where to start

[TigraTurbo]

Great work mate!!! be patient,and you will be rewarded

[tom reid]

looking smart pal i have been looking into doing the bike carb think on a c16xe but dont really know where to start

Don't think you're too far from me, come over and have a look, just ffs bring biscuitslmao

[gsigav]

may have to take you up on that some time think i sorted it out after a long night researching stuff just not sure on the fuel pump to use,how much i should be paying for a inlet and what ecu to go for.oh and drilling jets out but other than that think i have a half idea

[tom reid]

may have to take you up on that some time think i sorted it out after a long night researching stuff just not sure on the fuel pump to use,how much i should be paying for a inlet and what ecu to go for.oh and drilling jets out but other than that think i have a half idea

I have an inlet manifold here, if you're interested?
Fuel pump I use is this
Professional Motorsport Parts, Spares & Rally Equipment from Rally Design
and the regulator
Professional Motorsport Parts, Spares & Rally Equipment from Rally Design
Ecu is MegaJolt, I have one of these as well, and drilling jets, that could be sorted too.