1998 Astra G SRI Engine Loom Fire - Power Sounder

[porkus]

Superb, very handy info here.
I also agree a good solder joint does not suffer in a car-based environment either.

Thanks Dan. I don't think road cars suffer enough vibration for it to be an issue, if it was a race car it might be different though.

[porkus]

Please could someone pm or post some pics of the right hand side of the engine bay please? I am stuck on some of the routing the wires should take in the harness and what bits of cable armour go where.
Specifically I need to see the area under the expansion tank, around the washer bottle outlet, the earth strap and the front of the plastic channel the loom sits in where the ECU is.

I would be grateful - thanks everyone.

[Astra Dan]

Hope these are of use. Click to enlarge.

[porkus]

Thanks Dan - Yes they do. Much appreciated.

[porkus]

Some more photos - today how to get inside the ABS Module connector.

[porkus]

Well this evening I have been trying to sort out the routing for the cables and I think I have sussed it OK. Here is a pic' of what I think it should be. Could anyone confirm please?



Once everything is in its place and all bound up properly I will do a photo of the whole loom and mark it all up so everyone can see what it looks like and what goes to where.

Its just this little bit where the loom comes out near the washer bottle spout I am a bit stuck on.

[porkus]

Another picture - this time of the area the X2 plug connects onto and the ABS & Pad sensor wires.

[porkus]

Another couple of pics -

[porkus]

X2 Plug Wire Colours.



78 Should be Red & Brown.
76 should be Black & Violet.

[Astra Dan]

Superb info on the connector!

[porkus]

Superb info on the connector!

Thanks Dan. Please could you take a look at my image in #31 and see if you agree?

[porkus]

X2 Plug Wires
Pin Number-Destination-Colour-Size MM

1-Engine-Blue-0.75 (ECU Plug)
2-Bonnet Switch Plug Pin A-Brown/Green-0.5
3-Rear Harness-White/Black-0.75/0.35 (Grey 6 pin Engine Plug)
4-Not used
5-ABS, ESP, Power Steering-Black-0.75
6-ABS Module Plug Pin 20-Brown/Yellow-0.35
7-Earth-Brown-0.5
8-Simtec Plug Pin 37-Brown/Blue-0.5 (ECU Plug)
9-Brown Cylinder Connector Pin 14-Blue/White-0.5
10-Brown Cylinder Connector Pin 6-Blue/Green-0.75
11-Cruise Control Plug Pin B-Black/Yellow-0.75
12-Indicators Front & Side Left Pin 1 & Pin A-Black/White-0.75
13-Cruise Control Pin A-Black/Red-0.75
14-Cruise Control Pin G-Black/Yellow-0.5
15-Cruise Control Pin H-Brown/White-0.5
16-Power Sounder Pin 3 -Brown/Red-0.75
17-Cruise Control Pin C-Black/Brown-0.75
18-Power Sounder Pin 2 & Alarm Horn Pin B-Red-0.75
19-Indicators Front & Side Right Pin 1 & Pin A-Black/Green-0.75
20-Engine Oil Level-Brown/Green-0.75 (Grey 6 pin Engine Plug)
21-Parking Light Left Pin B-Grey/Black-0.75
22-Coolant Level-Brown/Blue-0.75
23-Engine-Black/Brown-0.35 (ECU Plug)
24-Washer Fluid Level-Brown/Yellow-0.5
25-Pin 5 Washer Relay Headlamp-Grey/Green-0.75
26-Pin 4 Washer Relay Headlamp-Black/Red-0.75
27-Not used
28-ABS Module Plug Pin 9-Blue-0.5 (ABS Cable)
29-ABS Module Plug Pin 2-Blue/Red-0.5 (ABS Cable)
30-ABS Module Plug Pin 28-Brown/Green-0.35
31-ABS Module Plug Pin 31-Black/Red-0.75
32-Parking Light Right Pin B-Grey/Red-0.75
33-ABS Diagnostic Link Brown/White-0.5
34-Brake Fluid-Brown/White-0.75
35-ABS Module Plug Pin 8-Brown-0.5 (ABS Cable)
36-ABS Module Plug Pin 1-Brown/Red-0.5 (ABS Cable)
37-Not used
38-ABS Module Plug Pin 14-Black/Green-0.75
39-Outside Temp Pin B Blue-0.35
40-Not used
41-Outside Temp Pin A-Blue/White-0.35
42-Not used
43-Not used
44-Not used
45-Not used
46-Engine-Brown/White-0.75 (ECU Plug)
47-Not used
48-Windscreen Washer Pump Pin 2-Black/Grey-0.75
49-Not used
50-Not used
51-Not used
52-Not used
53-Cruise Control Pin D-Grey- 0.5
54-Not used
55-Alarm Horn Pin A-Brown/Red-0.75
56-Pad Sensor Front Left Pin 2-Yellow/Red-0.5
57-Windscreen Washer Pump Pin 1-Black/Red-0.75
58-Headlamp Levellers Both Sides Pin 2-Brown/Yellow-0.75
59-Engine-Red-1
60-Not used
61-Steering Pin A-Blue/White-0.5
62-ABS Module Plug Pin 25-Blue/Red-0.5
63-Engine + Traction Control-Green-0.5 (ECU Plug)
64-Engine Diagnostic-Brown/Yellow-0.5
65-Not used
66-Cruise Control Pin F-Black-0.75
67-Not used
68-Not used
69-Not used
70-Not used
71-Not used
72-Not used
73-Windscreen Wiper Motor Pin C-Green-1.5
74-Windscreen Wiper Motor Pin E-White-1.5
75-Windscreen Wiper Motor Pin A-Yellow-1.5
76-Windscreen Wiper Motor Pin D-Black/Violet-1.5
77-Reversing Lamps/Speed Signal-Black-0.75 (Grey 6 pin Engine Plug)
78-Horns Both Pin 1 Red/Brown-1.5
79-Low Beam Pin 1 Left & Levelling Both Pin 3-Yellow 1.5/0.75
80-Low Beam Pin 1 Right-Yellow-1.5
81-High Beam Right Pin 1-White-1.5
82-High Beam Left Pin 1-White-1.5
83-Pin 8 Washer Relay Headlamp-Red-2.5
84-Not used
85-Not used
86-Not used
87-Power Sounder Pin 1 -Black-0.75
88-Not used
89-Not used
90-Not used
91-Engine-Red/Blue-1.5 (Grey 6 pin Engine Plug via purple relay)
92-Not used
93-Fog Lamps both Pin 2-Black-1.5
94-ABS Module Plug Pin 19-Brown-2.5
95-Brown Cylinder Connector Pin 8-Black/Red-2.5
96-Engine-Black-2.5 (Grey 6 pin Engine Plug)
97-Not used
98-Fuse 3 60 Amp-Black/Yellow-6
99-Fuse 2 60 Amp-Black/Red-6
100-Fuse 1 60 Amp-Black-6

Note that these pin-outs are for a 1998-99 Astra SRI 2.0 16v with an X20XEV block running ABS, Traction Control & Cruise Control. This is a model without Aircon, Heated Seats, Electric Mirrors, Electric Sunroof or an Engine Cooling module. I do not have the headlamp washers fitted either although I do have the wiring for it.

[Astra Dan]

You're lucky there, there's a whole host of wiring for the coolant control module. Mine's got one (due to air con I suppose) and it's a bit of nightmare if you need to tangle with it.
The only thing I'm not sure of in post 30 is the coolant level plug, but then mine hasn't got a check control fitted.
Mine also didn't have electric mirrors, but I've fitted them as the wiring was there.

Out of interest, my car was wired for cruise control INSIDE the car, near the indicator stalk and pedals, but could find no trace in the engine bay, so wired it myself from scratch.
Do you think it only goes to one side of the huge bulkhead connector? If you wanted cruise, now would be the ideal time to wire for it!

Finally, is there a battery in the power sounder itself? Is this what caused the fire? I might take mine apart and replace to be safe...

[Dom]

Repairing ABS Wires.

It is not recommended to repair ABS wires because of what they do but it is possible with some care. ABS wires are technically known as CAN bus - Controller Area Network - or in other words automotive LAN.

Incorrect - ABS wires are not CANBUS - they are just signal wires which carry a small analog signal from the ABS sensor.

[Dom]

Oh and your ABS wire repair should be fine - the wire for all intents and purposes is just normal cable. What I would recommend if you are shielding it would be to put a bit of extra PVC tape around the heatshrunk (or is it heatshrinked ?) joints before putting the shield over the top - that way if the joints do rub through they have a bit more insulation to go through before they get to the shielding.

The wires are twisted to help minimise interference - twisting the cables tends to help cancel out interference on differential signals.

[porkus]

Oh and your ABS wire repair should be fine - the wire for all intents and purposes is just normal cable. What I would recommend if you are shielding it would be to put a bit of extra PVC tape around the heatshrunk (or is it heatshrinked ?) joints before putting the shield over the top - that way if the joints do rub through they have a bit more insulation to go through before they get to the shielding.

The wires are twisted to help minimise interference - twisting the cables tends to help cancel out interference on differential signals.

Thanks Dom for the information, I shall wrap them further as you suggest to minimise any damage.

I was just going by what I had read elsewhere, so to confirm and get it clear in my head, the actual ABS module and ECU, etc, (the brain) communicates via CAN-Bus and the ABS wires are just merely providing the signal for that network to use?

[Dom]

I very much doubt on a 98-99 Astra it would be using Canbus - probably more like some kind of proprietory signalling or KW-2000 or similar.

The ABS wires from the sensors are purely analog - very similar to an audio signal (hence the shielding).

On newer cars a lot of the comms between the modules are done via CANBus or LinBus but the older Vauxhalls didn't tend to use it.

[porkus]

You're lucky there, there's a whole host of wiring for the coolant control module. Mine's got one (due to air con I suppose) and it's a bit of nightmare if you need to tangle with it.
The only thing I'm not sure of in post 30 is the coolant level plug, but then mine hasn't got a check control fitted.
Mine also didn't have electric mirrors, but I've fitted them as the wiring was there.

Out of interest, my car was wired for cruise control INSIDE the car, near the indicator stalk and pedals, but could find no trace in the engine bay, so wired it myself from scratch.
Do you think it only goes to one side of the huge bulkhead connector? If you wanted cruise, now would be the ideal time to wire for it!

Finally, is there a battery in the power sounder itself? Is this what caused the fire? I might take mine apart and replace to be safe...

Hi Dan, Tell me about it, its like Spaghetti.....I am glad I don't have the aircon. To be honest I have never had aircon on any car and don't really miss it. I just open the sunroof and windows. I think it was an option originally, you could either have aircon OR the sunroof, but not both.

The coolant level plug seems to be the only part that will fit through that particular hole in the loom casing without feeling "forced" and it does seem to be in the correct place looking at the photos. I will try it there and dry run fit the loom to see if it all sits properly.

I prefer the manual mirrors, I have had mine knocked off and clouted twice, by people using too much road, coming the other way, even though I slow down, they still barrel past and hit them. Cheaper to replace.

For the large connector it could be that they use a standard loom for the dash and instrumentation with all the wires for the options already there.....and then everything else added as an optional extra, changes on the front body loom? That way they use a standard set of instruments etc on assembly and the dealer can change the options pre-delivery by swapping the loom.

I am lucky that I have the cruise already. The cruise works off some of the ABS system as far as I can see, whilst also be wired into the ECU for the throttle. So I think it does go through the bulkhead connector both sides in some way or another.

Yes the Power Sounder has rechargeable batteries in it which can be replaced. I think you can get them from RS perhaps. A lot of places no longer stock them. A new Power Sounder is probably well over a £100 now anyway. It easy to get the back off. It is kind of a sealed unit but the back is quite loose and you can prise it off to get inside. (I will put up a pic in a while).

Its definitely what caught fire, it is a charred mess inside and completely burnt out beyond repair so I will just leave it off now. According to the thread below the Astra will work without the Power Sounder, but your alarm system loses its Thatcham 1 rating. I was looking up about Vauxhall Power Sounders on the web the other day and I found it had happened to Omegas, Vectras, Astras and a Zafira, so its a design fault really. The power sounder circuit appears to be un-fused which is kind of stupid!

This thread goes through some of it: astra G alarm going off. Powersounder?


Oh by the way some horror stories to look at:

Omega
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaB...num=1295738142
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaB...num=1295287318

Vectra
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/ipb/index...-today-gutted/

[porkus]

Thanks Dom - I wonder if you could plug a speaker with some form of power circuit on the end of the ABS wires and turn the wheel to check if the ABS sensor was working? strange thought I know.....

[porkus]

Inside the Power Sounder:

1. Slide the Power Sounder unit off the bracket. It has two channels that locate on the bracket and a large tang. Levering this tang away from the plastic body helps it to slide off easily.

2. Prise the back cover off using a small screwdriver. It comes off quite easily

3. Inside the Sounder you will find the two batteries which are white sitting in the middle of a load of "poured in" rubber sealant.

4. You will carefully have to cut away at this sealant with a knife and lever it all out. Be extremely careful. Under the sealant is a PCB and a few fragile resistors etc.

5. The batteries appear to be hard-wired to the PCB so will need to be carefully removed to replace.



Here are the batteries I pulled out. As you can see the coating has melted and they appear to have rusted and were full of water. They clearly have shorted out and are beyond repair. Its a bit ironic that the rubber sealant covers all the PCB but only partially covers the battery. This will allow water to get in between the battery skin over time.



Here is how the batteries lie in relation to the PCB.
Under the PCB is further rubber sealant. I guess that if its all removed the PCB and Horn will slide up and out of the housing.



Best I could do Dan, mine was in a sorry state and mostly charred.

[porkus]

I very much doubt on a 98-99 Astra it would be using Canbus - probably more like some kind of proprietory signalling or KW-2000 or similar.

The ABS wires from the sensors are purely analog - very similar to an audio signal (hence the shielding).

On newer cars a lot of the comms between the modules are done via CANBus or LinBus but the older Vauxhalls didn't tend to use it.

This is why I am confused about the CAN-Bus thing Dom, this post says Mk4's do have it for the ABS and ECU only though. I always thought Mid to late Vectra's and Astra G's had some CAN-bus for certain parts and that it was fully implemented in the Astra MK5? I thought the Mk4 was OBDII plus a little bit of CAN-bus.......oh well as long as it all works in the end, that's all I am worried about really

EDS IPF can bus fault? - Astra Sport and Astra Owners Club - Mk1 | Mk2 | Mk3 | Mk4 | Mk5 | Mk6 | Astra Van | 888 | VXR - All Welcome

[Astra Dan]

I have heard that the ABS is CANBus on the MK4, but I've never really understood how. Maybe that just means the engine ECU and the ABS ECU are joined in a CANBus network.
The engine ECU (on a 2.0 at least) is very standard, just the ECU with wires to the sensors and power. I've buzzed the buggers out enough in my time, which obviously would be impossible with CANBus.

[porkus]

Been soldering the connections for the X2 plug back on and heat shrinking them. Long slow task (on purpose to lessen errors). Testing each one to make sure it has continuity and checking the resistance also. Got about 20 left to do now.





Once I have done them all I will double check the connections to ensure they go to the correct pins etc and then I will bind it all up with loom tape.

[porkus]

I have heard that the ABS is CANBus on the MK4, but I've never really understood how. Maybe that just means the engine ECU and the ABS ECU are joined in a CANBus network.
The engine ECU (on a 2.0 at least) is very standard, just the ECU with wires to the sensors and power. I've buzzed the buggers out enough in my time, which obviously would be impossible with CANBus.

I think that is all it can be. There isn't really much else that's complicated in the loom. Most of it is plain old fashioned wiring.

[Dom]

Thanks Dom - I wonder if you could plug a speaker with some form of power circuit on the end of the ABS wires and turn the wheel to check if the ABS sensor was working? strange thought I know.....

You could if it was amplified - if you hook a set of computer speakers up you'll get a whine when you spin the wheel.