C20XE into Mini ECU help

[vectra640]

Definitely an earth, let us know if it stops the chattering

[cooper_mark]

k will do and thnx for your help.....

[vectra640]

Also didn't realise you were running TB's

No worries

[cooper_mark]

yeh that pic i uploaded isn't mine...i'm running hodablackbird 1100 TB's

[cooper_mark]

this is mine

and now sprayed

[vectra640]

Nice, hope it sorts it, PTW ratio is mental in a mini

[cooper_mark]

yeh and i'm looking forward to driving it

[vectra640]

I bet, what G'box is it running ?

[cooper_mark]

I bet, what G'box is it running ?

f20 at the moment but looking at doin a fd swap f16 3.55
or a F18 WR

[cooper_mark]

rite done what u said vectra and earthed that wire.....clattering stopped
now the two ring terminals on the oppersite side in the pic below...do they need to be earthed.....? reason i ask is if i earth them onto the fuel rail the fuel pump stops...and if i hold then together the fuel pump runs without them being earthed

[MSG]

Firstly, as vectra hasn't replied, so let me see if I can help, with my limited experience or hardly any on this loom.

Are you saying that when you put one of the earths shown circled in blue to your injectror rail, this stops the relay clattering?

secondly, are you then saying that when you put the Earths x 2 shown to the right of the blue circle to earth as well, then the fuel pump stops?

As I said I have no first hand experience on this loom, but those two earth wires to the right of the blue circle has the eyelets (ring as you call it) and they indicate that they need to be bolted to something, usually some earth points, as unless they bolted to some other device with bolt on connection as opposed to a plug on using a connector. And you are saying that when you do put that to earth it stops the fuel pump, but it runs the pump when you connect the two together!

It does seem strange, my gut feeling is that avoid earthing it as yet, until you find out if they are meant to be earthed, as they may be carrying a +ve 12V coming from the ecu or the FPR realy contacts! hence they may be for something that needs a +12v . and when you earth it, you are effectively shorting it to earth and this in turn stops your fuel pump running as the current is shorted out and stop reaching the fuel pump. So at this stage I would not earth them and just join them together to allow your pump to run, if they were meant to be earths then connecting them to earth should not have caused your fuel pump to stop,. I am suurprised you did not say if there were any sparks when you connected them to earth.

But it may be possible that these wires do need to be earthed, and when your fuel pump stops, that could be due to another issue,

Did you get any sparks when you earthed the two wires? Check using a 12V 21w brake light bulb if there is any +ve 12v on which of these two wires and if the bulb lights up bright, then there is a +12v and you should avoid earthing it. One wire of the bulb terminal should be attached to battery -ve or a good earthing point and the other used as a tester for this wire. Do not use a multimeter as that won't give you an idea if this wire is just at +12V with high resistance, only a bulb can tell you if this wire is at +12v with a low impedience source, such as a relay contact in a fuel pump relay etc. (sparks flying would indicate it is from a low impedience circuit unless you have already blown a fuse to protect the wires from overloading)

[vectra640]

Sorry not been well, right what he said was if he earths the ones I said it stops chattering but when he touches the other 2 together the pump starts without earthing them, the others need to be earthed also but it should not stop the pump

[vectra640]

Is the pump running just on the ignition without turning it over?

[cooper_mark]

hi vectra earthed that wire like u said....and chattering stopped..
yes the pump runs without it turning over....without them wires earthed and if i earth them the pump stops
also msg asked if i earth them am i getting a spark.....yes only very faint tho
quick vid hope it helps explain a bit better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKjO0HsyyxY

[MSG]

A faint spark on one of the two earth wires indicates that some other piece of equipment is powered on with a +12v supply, possibly when your ignition is ON, and so it definitely needs an earth for it to work correctly, whatever that piece of equipment is, it could be a solinoid valve, or it can be anything for that matter as part of the engine control system. Therefore this first earth wire you got some light sparks from needs to be grounded.

According to my diagnosis, when you also earth the 2nd wire, then this makes your fuel pump stop, so this is correct in my opinion, the fuel pump should run some other way and not through you joining these two earth wires together, These two earth wires definitely need earthing and you got to then look why your fuel pump is not running, the fuel pump runs through an FPR relay, so you then need to check why this relay is not comoing ON, this relay is brought on by the ECU when ignition is ON and the engine starts cranking. The ecu itself will require signals from the Crank Sensor, so make sure it is good and connected properly to your ECU loom. The FPR relay may also cut in briefly for the first few seconds when you first switch your ignition On, for priming purposes. This is even if the engine is not being cranked.

When you instead join the two earth wires together, instead of earthing them to engine or fuel rail, it makes the fuel pump run, this is clearly wrong, This indicates that the this 2nd earth wire is a return path for another piece of equipment (2nd piece of equipment or circuit) that is supposed to be supplied with its own +12v supply, and so this 2nd earth wire is the return path of that 2nd equipment or the circuit.

For now, it is not important what that 2nd piece of equipment is, it could be anything and so your return current for the first piece of equipment or circuit emerges from the first earth wire (the one with a weak spark) and when you join it to the 2nd earth wire which must be a return path of a 2nd piece of equipment or circuit, this then makes the return current from the 1st piece of equipment to flow through the return wire of the 2nd piece of equipment and ends up at the supply feed of the 2nd piece of equipment, which should have its own +12v supply but it bis not there, so it receives a + volts from the first circuits return and feeds through the fuel pump that then starts to run. I beleive this 2nd piece of equipment is associated with your fuel injectors +12v common, (red/blue) which is also commoned with the red/blue wire from the fuel pump, and this explains why when joining the two earths runs your fuel pump, which is incorrect. These two wires need earthing.

The 2nd piece of equipment is meant to have been supplied with a +12v and is not getting one, I beleive this is your Red/blue feed to injectors and it is also common to fuel pump +ve, and it should be getting a power directly from the FPR and not through the return path of another circuit.

therefore the return current flows from first equipment passes through to the return of the 2nd equipment's earth and then ends up on the Red/blue fuel wire, which starts to run the pump possibly at less than full power, so if you check with a volt meter across the fuel pump, you might confirm that you are not getting a full 12v across the fuel pump, probably a lot less.

this means the fuel pump is not getting its real full 12v from trhe FPR, so you need to bolt those two earths to the engine block or fuel rail and then concentrate on your FPR relay. try swapping it with a good relay and see if your fuel pump now runs ok whislt the two wires are bolted to earth.

but also make sure that FPR relay is wired correctly as per Haynes manual. make sure there are no immobiliser issues with the ecu and if so you will need to overcome that as it can stop fuel relay coming on.

[Andy K]

i've watched the video. . Earth all of them.

The pump isn't meant to run unless the engine is turning over. So when all are earthed it appears correct.

What happens when u try to start engine with all earthed ?

[cooper_mark]

yeh cars runs with everthing connected up bit tappy but hadn't been run for 2 years
quick vid
c20xe mini 16v - YouTube

[vectra640]

It will most likely quieten down after the oil gets working properly but glad its working correctly now

[vectra640]

Don't know if that was one of your kids or your mrs but they sounded well pleased that its up and running, glad to help mate

[cooper_mark]

Don't know if that was one of your kids or your mrs but they sounded well pleased that its up and running, glad to help mate

it was one of my daughters.....she's well chuffed(more than me i think)......lol thnx for all ur help guys on here....

[cooper_mark]

rite next problem......
with the ignition on if i put my hazzards on the fuel pump relay clicks intime with the hazzards and the fuel pump primes aswell
also if i flick the high beam on the same thing happens
any help would be great...i've got a little vid if it helps

[candy kane]

i know this may be irrelivant but on my mini my steering collum loom actually fused together yes all 6 or so wires melted into one. So maybe your mini loom may have a short sum where if its only doin it when you turn the switches on. It may well not be the case but woth taking off the cowling and having a look also trace the hazards wiring back too i know it may be a lil difficult with the matrix in situe but it may pay divident

hope this helps mate been on the mini scene for 8 years or so i know them pretty much inside out now im a series all the way possible 1293 turbo in the wings but got 1425 full rally spec for nowB-)

[cooper_mark]

yeh all that has been checked mate...i've been into mini since i was 14 and i'm now 41 so i've been in the seen most of my life....

[Andy K]

how have you connected the vauxhall ecu loom upto the mini loom ?

i.e the thick red, black and earth wiring ?


Have you done any new earthing near the mini factory earthing ?

[cooper_mark]

yes
yes
and no