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Brake initial pedal feel and action

812 views 17 replies 7 participants last post by  Big Col 
#1 ·
Does any Vauxhall's brakes actuall do anything in the first 2 inches of pedal travel?

My Calibra has brand new EBC's on front and rear with braided line, has been bled till its totally air free yet has around 2 inches of travel before anything starts happening. When it does happen, its fine.

My Vectra I fitted new standard disks/pads front and rear, with braided hoses and again its been bled totally. Yet it too has around 2 inches of pedal travel before anything happens.

They both have exactly the same brake setup, 288's front and 286's rear. Both have exactly the same caliper too.

My old Focus (which I drove again this week, after 2 weeks driving the Vectra) stuck my face into the windscreen as its brakes work from the first 1mm of travel, and never even go past 1 inch of travel. Driving it again has made me realise how totally cr*p the Vauxhall brakes are.

I think the problem is due to the fact that the front calipers "bow" for a bit before they actually start putting pressure on the disc. This is supposed to be controlled by the springs which "connect" the 2 parts of the caliper together. The Vectra actually has new springs on it too because I found some, but its still as poor as it was before.

OK, it could be due to a worn Master Cylinder, but the pedals hold firm when pushed, do its not passing fluid through the seals.

It could be a simple case of adjusting the actuator rod which connects pedal to M/C, but this is just preloading the caliper which shouldn't be necessary and will definately increase wear as I've no doubt the pads are touching the disc whilst the caliper parts are flexing apart (as the pads are what is actually pushing the calipers apart).

Is it just a really poor design and all the calipers of this design do this, or do both my Vauxhall's just happen to have an issue.

Is there a different ATE caliper which fits, or did Vauxhall ever use a different manufacturers caliper which fits that hub/mount? A nice monoblock perhaps :)

Whilst you do get used to it after a few hours, it isn't half a sh!t braking system when you drive a better one.

Clearly 308's will have the same problem as they share the same design, posibly even worse as they have more give/flex inbuilt into their design to cope with the larger disc.

I want to keep standard brake parts on the Veccy, the calibra will get Brembo's if I ever uprate it.

Is it just mine?

ta
Chris
 
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#3 ·
nova boy roy said:
Can you adjust a calibras brake pedal? i had to adjust mine when i had a bigger set up on the front.
The pedal is resting on the "plunger", its not like there is a gap. Any adjustment will just pre-load the caliper and wear pads.
 
#4 ·
mines the same mate thay are crap i have v6 setup on mine i belive because the piston is bigger the pedal has more fluid to move hense giving more travel
 
#7 ·
Astra Dan said:
No-spec's front 288s took a week to bed in before they felt great. No pedal slack an that's with a 1.4 master cylinder and servo.

Give them some more time to bed in, seems coincidental you've renewed both cars stuff and think both are a bit rubbish.
The Vectra has done 1200 miles in the last couple of weeks with them, and they are still cr*p.

Are you suggesting the problem is with my workmanship :)

Its all down to the caliper flex, its just a totally stupid design. Both cars have them installed correctly, both had the calipers fully checked for piston movement when fitting and both do actually brake fine, totally fine. Its just the large pedal movement before anything really happens.

Dan: I'm not suggesting your's aren't fantastic with no slack, but have you driven something else (ideally a Focus which I know is excellent) recently as a comparison. I think it may be Fords in general, as my mums Mondeo is excellent too.
 
#8 ·
Um, I drove a Citroen camper based on a CS van a while ago :rolleyes:, and our site van is an X reg Escort... They both had brakes bad enough to scare me!

My mk3 has slighty poo brakes, with 288 front and 286 rears. But then the pedal sometimes sinks to the floor whilst stopped, yet loses no fluid. I'm putting this down to leaky valves in the ABS unit, and have aquired a spare to see what difference that makes.
 
#9 ·
Astra Dan said:
Um, I drove a Citroen camper based on a CS van a while ago :rolleyes:, and our site van is an X reg Escort... They both had brakes bad enough to scare me!

My mk3 has slighty poo brakes, with 288 front and 286 rears. But then the pedal sometimes sinks to the floor whilst stopped, yet loses no fluid. I'm putting this down to leaky valves in the ABS unit, and have aquired a spare to see what difference that makes.
Hm... ABS unit, leaking fluid back under pressure.....

Although the Calibra has had a different ABS unit fitted, it wasn't a new one.

Thats a very good possibility. (not 100% sure the Vectra has ABS but probably has).
 
#12 ·
Tom Williams said:
my turbo is like that fbi, it might be down to the size of the master cylinder?
I don't think it is, as when they start working, not much pressure is needed to make them do a lot.
+ you'd hope Vauxhall would pick the right size to start with. It must be either a cr*p caliper design or something deteriorating (which can only be seals in M/C or ABS unit).
 
#13 ·
Thinking about the ABS as a cause.

I don't think the ABS seals are causing it, but I do know that I forgot to have the ignition on with the Vectra so the ABS could also be bled.

On the Calibra it made no difference so not sure if it would make any on the Vectra, I believe the proper way is to get a Tech 2 to "trigger" the ABS whilst you are bleeding it.

Then again, I can't even remembe seeing the ABS unit, as the Diesel pump is where it normally would be.

Why Bosch don't put little grub screws on the ABS (like is on the 4x4 Accumulator) to bleed them I don't know :(
 
#14 · (Edited)
My Cav V6 with 308 fronts and 286 rears, stands on it's nose with very light pressure when the discs are cold.

bit more predictable after they've been used a bit.



As for the Vectra there is a common failure on those ABS units.

 
#17 ·
Is it my imagination, or does really cold weather give better feel?

I guess the seals in the ABS unit are less flexible in cold weather and therefore do a better job of sealing.

Perhaps its just me....
 
#18 ·
my Corsa GSi always had a long pedal. In the years i owned it i replaced pads/shoes/drums/discs/wheel cylinders/fluid but the long pedal always remained. I put it down to a characteristic of ABS equipped Corsa's.
 
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