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About LinkBacksSearched google for 'dolly' got this
A FRAME RECOVERY FRAME TOWING DOLLY GALVANIZED. on eBay (end time 16-Mar-10 20:10:42 GMT)
Are these any good?lmao
Searched google for 'dolly' got this
Are these any good?lmao
I'm guessing the crux of this is that if the second vehicle needs another driver to control it, then that vehicle needs to be insured. If the car truly acts as a trailer and can be towed and is thus controlled by the driver of the first vehicle, then it counts as a trailer. Just a guess though, applying some common sense.Originally Posted by jayporn
Anyone know if it's true that you need insurance just to have a vehicle parked on the road? Makes sense really, if you live on a hill and your handbrake fails you are liable for the damage caused by your vehicle...
99% tongue in cheek
yes true, thats what i am saying
and yes you NEED insurance if the car is going to be on the public highway (IE a road that is not a private road)...same goes for tax
Signature not as cool as Paul's
Cheers lads will deffo be using Dolly next time. Appriciate everyone's comments, no one I know new about this either, ignorance just wont do! Didn't start this thread to be arsey with people, thought it may help as clearly not everyone was aware.Glad that's been cleared up. Cheers.
Soon the face recognition CCTV Camera system will recoganise your face and if you are a wanted man for any offence they will come and clamp your legs and tow you to an offenders camp, released upon your wife, sister, brother, or anyone with interest in you to come and release you upon paying clamping and towing charges, and paying your outstanding fines, if no one comes for your rescue, you are doomed, you will be crushed into a heap of bones for making Gelatine and so the world goes on a everyone who pays and don't break the law are the happy lot!
What I am getting at is you need to be insured for nearly everything now, insured against fraud or your bank won't pay you if your credit card gets stolen, insured against public liability even if you found that you didn't need one for most of your life, insured to park a car on a public high way, why? you pay for the road license to have it on the road, if not driven it need not be insured! so what if your hand brake fails while the car is parked on your own drive and rolls out into the street?
basically it is just a money making or money spinning ploy, its the law of the rich sucking the poors of the society.
our manufacturing and export industry is dead now, but the inssurance industry is still thriving, and how often do you hear them going bankrupt! so the rich few must find new way to make money some how, so by bringing in new ideas, we now got to0 pay more for 3D Tv, we got to pay BBC, which in my opinion should be dismentled and completly privatised, so we don't have to pay TV license when most of us don't even watch anything worth watching on BBC, The politicians are to blame fr all this for allowing such legislation to go through, if you are dog owner now you must insure him too, what will be next ......hamsters!! No wonder people are sick of Britain! and leaving by scores to other countries!
Last edited by MSG; 12-03-2010 at 08:22.
if it wasn't for the earth , there wouldn't be any universe, mother earth gave birth to all the creation! and without the earths gravitational pull, the sun and the moon would have long gone adrift!
Dollys are only legal for short distance recovery as technically it is a trailer towing a trailer!even if you were using a solid bar, and being towed you are still in the wrong unfortunately...
reason being, even if the car is on a rigid bar, you still have to control it, therefore it is not a trailer...its only a trailer IF you are not controlling the car that is being towed, so you need a dolly (as you dont sit in the car being towed) and thus in theory making the car being towed a trailer...
in short, you cannot control the car that is being towed
fines and police (sometimes) suck
Veni,Vidi,Scubi
You still will NOT be legal with a dolly, or an 'A' frame come to that. If the wheels are in contact with the road and the car still has an engine in it (even if the engine can not run) then it is still a mechanically propelled vehicle and the person using it must have appropriate insurance.
Veni,Vidi,Scubi
Pubien V Vines, Queens bench Division says otherwise:
Pumbien v Vines
(1995) June 14 Queen's Bench Divisional Court
A motor car parked on a road was being used on the road for the purposes of sections 47 and 143 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 even if it was totally immobilised and could only be moved by being dragged away, and, therefore, required both a valid MOT certificate and an insurance policy.
The Court so held in dismissing an appeal by way of case stated by Andee Pumbien against his conviction of offences of using a motor vehicle on a road without either a valid test certificate or insurance policy contrary to sections 47(1) and 143(1) of the 1988 act.
THE FACTS
The facts are taken from the judgment of MR JUSTlCE MITCHELL.
In March 1992 Pumbien (the appellant) parked the vehicle on a road at a time when the vehicle was in working order. He cancelled the policy of insurance covering the use of the vehicle and in August 1992 the MOT test certificate expired Pumbien had not driven it since parking it there in March.
No insurance policy or MOT test certificate were in existence for November 10. The prosecution alleged that by reason of the presence of the vehicle on the road on that date Pumbien was using it for the purposes of the two provisions under which he was charged.
On November 13 the vehicle was collected by a vehicle dismantler to whom it had been sold on a date after November 10. The condition of the vehicle was found to have been as follows:
The tyres were deflated, the handbrake was on and the rear brakes were seized. The gearbox contained n oil because there was a leak in the transmission pipe.
It would not have been possible to move the vehicle without first freeing the brakes, replacing the transmission pipe and oiling the gearbox.
The justices found that that Pumbien had taken no positive action to immobilise the vehicle. It was clear that in that state the vehicle, although clearly repairable, could neither be driven nor towed unless it was literally dragged.
THE LAW
The court considered the authorities and concluded that the position appeared to be:
1. A motor vehicle which was mobile at least to the extent that its wheels would rotate had to be insured and there had to be an appropriate test certificate in force in respect of it before it could lawfully be parked on a road: see Elliott v Grey [1960] 1 QB 367 and Gosling v Howard [1975] RTR 429.
2. A motor vehicle which was immobile at least to the extent that its wheels would not rotate did not require a current test certificate before it could lawfully be parked on a road :see Hewer v Cutler (1974) RTR 155.
In The court's judgment, provided (i) that a vehicle was a "motor vehicle" within the definition in section 185 of the Act and (ii) that the vehicle was on a road, the owner of that vehicle had the use of it on a road whether at the material time it could move on its wheels or not.
The court found it impossible either in law or in common sense to justify the proposition that a motor vehicle which was in good condition but which had been immobilised to prevent its wheels from rotating did not attract the insurance requirements whereas the requirements did apply to a vehicle in poor condition and without certain important parts if the wheels could rotate.
Such a distinction was both artificial and unfair; all the more so if the insurance obligation could be avoided simply · by immobilising the vehicle to the extent that the wheels could not rotate. The one was neither more nor less of a hazard than the other when standing stationary on a road.
Veni,Vidi,Scubi
Thank you Trevor, i couldn't find that.
I'm louder than gods own revolver and twice as shiney.
In the end, higher the cost of insuraning cars, lesser the people will drive, the fewer drivers will then have to cough up even higher insurance costs because the giant Insurance companies aren't content with making just a million bucks profit but they want to make Billions, and be able to line up huge bonuses for their prime staff and bosses!
So as more car drivers take to Public transport, the higher goes the bus and public transport fares, they are a joke already! and so when people turning to other means of transport such as Bikes, they will be the next target of having to compulsorily purchase at least a 3rd party insurance! Don't worry them big fat lazy good for nothing rich suckers have other plans to continue to line up their pockets through poor hard working ordinary folks.
As less people own cars, and lesser drive, the Local councils will stop earning additional revenue, then turn to confiscate your bicycle and issue you a fine, these will be electronically chipped to ID the ownership, for parking on a spot not dedicated for bicycle parking, which will be everywhere where you can now park a bike but in future it will probably painted and signed as no bicycle parking! In otherwords men has nevr been free from intimidation even under democracy.
if it wasn't for the earth , there wouldn't be any universe, mother earth gave birth to all the creation! and without the earths gravitational pull, the sun and the moon would have long gone adrift!
unless its on 2IE, a dolly or axle stands...but axle stands on a public road is a grey area, some cops think its ok and let you off (like i got let off because my car couldnt no get up the smallest of friggin curbs
lmao)
Still have to be insured afaik as dolly is only legal for recovery to the nearest safe place. It would need to be a trailer with both axles clear of the road.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip!"
I'm probably being a bit pedantic, but I don't believe that to be the case. The car would be legally classed as a trailer if on an A frame or dolly, however, since there is no suitable braking system employed it would be over the maximum permissible weight for an unbraked trailer unless as discussed in another thread it was one of those awful french micro-cars. Hence A frames only being strictly legal for the removal of the vehicle from the highway to the nearest safe location, such as the next lay-by, at which point for further recovery it would have to be conventionally towed requiring the usual tax, mot and insurance or fully trailered.
Essentially, you're done either way.
Even just parked in front of your house and not being driven?
The important part with the car being towed is who is USING it, that would be the person towing the car. My car insurance specifically gives me cover for towing 'mechanically disabled vehicles', it is right there on the policy, in black and white. But the vehicle at the top of this thread was not actually mechanically disabled....
Veni,Vidi,Scubi
If any part of it is on or overhanging the road or publicly owned verge then yes.
Veni,Vidi,Scubi
Ahhhhhh thanks for clearing it all up trev and alister
Signature not as cool as Paul's
Some insurance companies consider Insurance as invalid if the vehicle has no valid MOT, in which case if you were towing an otherwise insured car but with an expired MOT then one could scumb to the law. right now one of my car's MOT has expired and I need to find some time to take it for its MOT, yes its the Manta, and I don't expect it to pass without some welding work being required around the sills, effectively I beleive I am parked on a public Highway with no valid insurance, even though the insurance is in force on the data base, so I am waiting for the knock on my door!! But not to worry, I have a lawyer who can deal with that.
and of course you can debate this issue forever, I would think at least 20% of all cars requiring MOT would be MOT failure even though they hold a valid MOT papers, I see many cars on the road with their headlights pointing in all directions! and they would certainly fail an MOT if they were to go through one, yet those drivers are effectively driving without an insurrance as their cars are not mainatained ina ro0ade worthy condition.
if it wasn't for the earth , there wouldn't be any universe, mother earth gave birth to all the creation! and without the earths gravitational pull, the sun and the moon would have long gone adrift!
If the car is on the Queens highway (any public road) is has to be insured, taxed and moted.
I'm louder than gods own revolver and twice as shiney.
I suppose the conclusion is that any vehicle with an engine in it with any of its wheels on the ground in a 'public place' (not just the road) has to be taxed and insured with also a MOT unless it is going to/from a pre-booked MOT test.
That means if an engined vehicle is being towed it doesn't matter how it is attached to the towing vehicle, 2 wheel dolly/A frame/rope/bar/chewing gum it has to be at least taxed/insured and probably MOT'd as well. Only by being totally off the ground will it escape those requirements.
If anyone has not been booked then it is down to not being seen/police discretion and they should count themselves lucky.
Then there is the other bag of worms as to whether the towing vehicle is heavy enough to be towing at all.
No they don't. The wording is usually 'vehicle is kept in a roadworthy condition'. Some vehicles are exempt from testing, espeically < 3 year old cars. Also you need to be able to drive your car to and from a MoT test, you'd need insurance for that.
They're there, in their room.
Yes, your quite correct, and in addition EU law requires written notice sent by recorded delivery to cancel the third party element of your insurance, and does not allow automatic exclusion clauses like 'No MOT, No Insurance'.
Veni,Vidi,Scubi
If a car is parked on the road and not insured, you cant actually get points on your license as far as im aware, as the IN10 code is for DRIVING a vehicle (includes on a rope or bar of course as you are still steering it) and when its parked on a road uninsured no one is driving it.
The "person who drove it last" thing mentioned above is a nonsense, what if I leant my car to someone, they finished with it, parked it on the road, and then a month or three later a copper came along and found my insurance had just expired, according to the nonsense in this thread my mate would be liable for the points, LOL
There may be an offence committed, but its not the normal in10 one when the car is just parked
For no nonsense hardcore vauxhall modifying advice: www.VauxSport.com
My Total-Vauxhall Magazine Staff Nova in the www.VauxSport.com garage
My Total-Vauxhall Magazine Staff Calibra in the www.VauxSport.com garage
If you want to be legal, no good at all unless you are towing an axiom or you are simply moving a vehicle to the nearest place of safety (ie the first layby or sidestreet you pass)Searched google for 'dolly' got this
A FRAME RECOVERY FRAME TOWING DOLLY GALVANIZED. on eBay (end time 16-Mar-10 20:10:42 GMT)
Are these any good?lmao
Any trailer with a GVW over 750kg (every car basically, as its the GROSS weight) must have brakes.
And no you cant just fit a device to apply the cars brakes, as they dont match the relevant legislation for braked trailers (even though they are better than trailer brakes they dont have the right certificated proof of this)
For no nonsense hardcore vauxhall modifying advice: www.VauxSport.com
My Total-Vauxhall Magazine Staff Nova in the www.VauxSport.com garage
My Total-Vauxhall Magazine Staff Calibra in the www.VauxSport.com garage
your correct...i took mine out garage and on the road outside mine no tax insurance got done court summons £280 fine no points
But a licence is not required to be the driver of a towed vehicle! So why does it need to be insured and taxed, All money grabing arse raping bollox, sorry if that offends any one
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