Baby P parents - Page 2

CandyApple · 20-11-2008, 22:32

I've only just heard of this. Very sad news.

Labelling a child baby P makes me cringe. It dehumanizes a little boy who was neglected by his parents and failed by the very people whos jobs it is to protect him. He was literally held captive by his mother(and the system protecting her rights) in a horrific, abusive environment that evetually led to his death.

I am angered by the level of incompetence involved in the case of baby P. Where is the accountability?
Why is so much care being taken to protect the identities of the people who caused his death? IMO it only adds insult to injury.

I can't express everything I am feeling into words. There are so many questions needing answers.

R.I.P. little fellow.

Ginge · 20-11-2008, 22:32

Another site that is reporting a lot more than other places..

http://pysih.com/

Ginge

x20xev · 20-11-2008, 22:58

Utterly disgusting, can't believe for a moment that nobody actually noticed the kid with those injuries FFS. A system designed to aid and help those who are in dire need has failed yet again.

TINTIN · 21-11-2008, 09:23

Hang the feckers

Fastra mk2 · 21-11-2008, 10:21

A broken back FFS!!!!! i read in the paper the otherday that theres a legion of around 500,000 (and rising!) people flooding newspapers and forums with letters and emails diplaying their disgust it seems to have sparked a huge reaction and people want to see these people as an exeption be dealt with via capital punishment, we'll see! even if they get life they'll have to be kept in isolation as im almost certain they would be killed in prison given half a chance!

***Andy_L*** · 21-11-2008, 10:44

Hanging is too good for these people.

They deserve to be put in stocks and the public do whatever they want to do.

If they're still alive at the end of it string 'em up horizontally and plant some bamboo underneath them. Won't take long then.

**CraigGreen** · 21-11-2008, 10:49

Tbh, the way I feel about it is that its truly disgusting things like this are able to happen in our society, however I'm sick of all the talk surrounding it. All the news coverage & facebook groups (started by bored women no doubt) will do nothing to help the childs case or the conviction of the parent/guardian. I myself dont want to know anything about it.

Trevor · 21-11-2008, 11:09

Can I point out that if anyone posts or sends details that have been with-held by court then it is contempt. It also means that any charges brought against anyone involved may fail in court on the grounds that an un-biased jury could not be obtained.

Please think carefully before you vent your spleens publicly.

Rik · 21-11-2008, 12:00

You know that scene in scarface with the chainsaw in the bathroom? Well thats what i want to do to these people. After breaking their backs with a sledgehammer.

Cati · 21-11-2008, 15:43

omg how could someone do that and actually live with themselves??

BazW · 21-11-2008, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigGreen

All the news coverage & facebook groups (started by bored women no doubt) will do nothing to help the childs case or the conviction of the parent/guardian

i'm sick of people sending me invites to causes on facebook...as if it's going to make any difference a load of people sat whinging about something!! most of those that post on them are illiterate retards anyway

CandyApple · 21-11-2008, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

Can I point out that if anyone posts or sends details that have been with-held by court then it is contempt. It also means that any charges brought against anyone involved may fail in court on the grounds that an un-biased jury could not be obtained.

Please think carefully before you vent your spleens publicly.

Trevor have u read anything to do with this thread topic? The mother, her live in boyfriend and her lodger were found guilty of Causing or Allowing the Death of a Child in August 2007 and are awaiting sentencing in December. They face up to fourteen years in prison.

If anyone who published any restricted details were actually brought to court for contempt there would be such a **** storm of trouble raised it would hardly be worth the bother or the bad publicity for those in charge. Frankly it would be worth the slap on the wrist if only to name and shame the people involved IMO.

I think that most people are adult enough here to measure their actions against the consequences. I only wish people would post an informed opinion rather than jump in without the basic facts.

***Tom Williams*** · 21-11-2008, 20:44

I read one of the sites with Loren last night.

We were both horrified by the account from the young girl.

Hanging would not be enough for those horrendous people.

turbojolt · 21-11-2008, 21:01

i live 4 roads from the road were this happened and i recognize the guy from my local it amazes me what can be going on behind closed doors it makes me fell sick that some one could do this to a defenseless child

MSG · 21-11-2008, 22:24

apart from the horror of this story, I can't help myself feeling this little fellows pain, I just don't know how he lasted as long as he did, I would have long given up all hope! and what amazes me was the 15 year old girl witness, seeing it all happen in front of her own eyes, and yet she could not see this fellow's pain and tried blocking her ears to shunt his agonising screams, and when he cried in his cot at night, in agonising pain, no one to comfirt him, and all his cries for mercy went unheard by the evils surrounding him, she is just as evil in my opinion if not more, his life could have been saved by her, all she had to do was dial 999.

(Forgive us little fellow (name ommitted) no one came to your rescue, we all let you down badly, I/we can promise you if we had heard your screams we would not have just stood there and listen to your cries and did nothing! may you now R.I.P.)

Jack · 21-11-2008, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandyApple

They face up to fourteen years in prison.

How long?! FFS.

I hope he gets as much abuse as Huntley did from other inmates.

Trevor · 22-11-2008, 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandyApple

Trevor have u read anything to do with this thread topic?

Actually I have and clearly I have a greater grasp of the British legal system than you have.

There are other charges that are untried and there is also the possibility of criminal prosecutions against the social workers and others who failed in their duties. Any hysteria led prejudice would leave a defence claim of an unbiased jury wide open.

Also there were other children in the family who are protected by law not to have their names made public. There may be further charges that may also arise from the abuse of those children against the people involved. If they are named then a jury would be tainted by the knowledge of their other offences and more likely to return a guilty verdict. See the bit above.

That is why the court order is in place that the people involved are not to be named.

Here is a quote from a site that is looking at it all in a non-hysterical way:

Quote:

Adam Wolanski, a barrister who represented British media outlets that applied to the court to be allowed to publish pictures given in evidence at the Baby P trial, says the news organizations didn't even try to be allowed to name everyone in the case. "That was absolutely unarguable," he said. Exactly why it's unarguable is, however, unmentionable. So far, that particular unmentionable hasn't yet made it to the Internet, and if some of those namers and shamers knew what Wolanski knows, they might actually think twice before posting.

Trevor · 22-11-2008, 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSG

the 15 year old girl witness, seeing it all happen in front of her own eyes, and yet she could not see this fellow's pain and tried blocking her ears to shunt his agonising screams, and when he cried in his cot at night, in agonising pain, no one to comfirt him, and all his cries for mercy went unheard by the evils surrounding him, she is just as evil in my opinion if not more, his life could have been saved by her, all she had to do was dial 999.

It is illegal to publish the baby's first name, also the daughter was scared, very scared.

MSG · 22-11-2008, 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

It is illegal to publish the baby's first name, also the daughter was scared, very scared.

Sorry mate ! name now ommitted. (regards to the daughter, I accept she must have been very very scared, sad she couldn't find a way out of this frightfull experience before much harm was done to baby P. I guess one can't blame her for that then.

CandyApple · 22-11-2008, 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

Actually I have and clearly I have a greater grasp of the British legal system than you have.

The British Legal System is a joke and needs a good swift kick in the ass, especially in regaurds to sentences for horrific crimes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

There are other charges that are untried and there is also the possibility of criminal prosecutions against the social workers and others who failed in their duties. Any hysteria led prejudice would leave a defence claim of an unbiased jury wide open.

Unless u plan on finding people who live without the benefit of any sort of news via newspapers, radio, internet or tv, u will never be able to put together a jury who has not heard about the baby P saga. Having heard of reports and being biased is not the same thing. I do believe the Prosecutors must be biased against the defence in order to do their jobs correctly and as such a jury can be instructed to disregaurd whatever they have heard in the media and to focus on the facts presented or maybe u expect that only a bunch of idiots would get suckered into sitting in the jury box?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

Also there were other children in the family who are protected by law not to have their names made public. There may be further charges that may also arise from the abuse of those children against the people involved. If they are named then a jury would be tainted by the knowledge of their other offences and more likely to return a guilty verdict. See the bit above..

Sad how much protection is being afforded after the harm has been done. Some prevention would have made all the difference IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

That is why the court order is in place that the people involved are not to be named.

In a word, bullcrap! If jury's can't be trusted to be reasonable people then perhaps there should only be trial by judge and be done with the jury system.
It's not good enough that justice is done, it must also be seen to be done and IMO it hasn't been in this case nor does it look like it will be. The legal system pretends to be good and honourable, seeking to provide justice yet all I see here is incompetance, a lack of accountability and the protection of the criminals rights without regaurd to the victim/s and the publics.

CandyApple · 22-11-2008, 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

It is illegal to publish the baby's first name, also the daughter was scared, very scared.

I missed this before, what daughter was very scared? I am confused. From what I read baby P's mother had a daughter whilst in prison and the only other so called child in that household was a 15 yr old who was shacked up with her lodger. Could u please provide me a link to the information u are quoting.

MSG · 22-11-2008, 10:14

I forgot to mention that according to the latest press reports, a number of people did rule out against Baby P going back to his evil parents, I beleive one of them was the Police officer,who tried to intervene in the matter but his decision was overruled by the Social Services, there is blood at the hands of the Social services, that is for sure.

Trevor · 22-11-2008, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandyApple

The British Legal System is a joke and needs a good swift kick in the ass, especially in regaurds to sentences for horrific crimes.

Unless u plan on finding people who live without the benefit of any sort of news via newspapers, radio, internet or tv, u will never be able to put together a jury who has not heard about the baby P saga. Having heard of reports and being biased is not the same thing. I do believe the Prosecutors must be biased against the defence in order to do their jobs correctly and as such a jury can be instructed to disregaurd whatever they have heard in the media and to focus on the facts presented or maybe u expect that only a bunch of idiots would get suckered into sitting in the jury box?
Sad how much protection is being afforded after the harm has been done. Some prevention would have made all the difference IMO.

In a word, bullcrap! If jury's can't be trusted to be reasonable people then perhaps there should only be trial by judge and be done with the jury system.
It's not good enough that justice is done, it must also be seen to be done and IMO it hasn't been in this case nor does it look like it will be. The legal system pretends to be good and honourable, seeking to provide justice yet all I see here is incompetance, a lack of accountability and the protection of the criminals rights without regaurd to the victim/s and the publics.

That is all just your opinion though. As said before, there are good reasons why the people involved can not be named, do you want someone to slip off of several counts of statutory rape which carries life sentences just because you want to know the names of everyone involved?

As for the sentence no-one was charged with Baby P's murder. Under the circumstances a 14 year term was about the maximum a judge could give. Other charges which can carry a far greater sentence may still be raised, that is why the orders are in place, and to prevent other members of the family being stigmatised by association.

And when your a UK citizen you can kick the legal system in the ass. Until then you will have to grin and bear it.

Trevor · 22-11-2008, 11:31

Oh and I must point out that I failed to observe this type of public outcry over Victoria Climbie, although her case was just as bad. But then she was not blonde haired and blue eyed.

MSG · 22-11-2008, 15:12

I hate taking sides, but in due honesty Trevor is 100% right that we have to respect the justice system, or else thyere will be chaos everywhere. Wait till december the 15th when these evil monsters will be sentenced based on not just allowing their baby to die but there will be all other charges of massive cruelty and brutality hence I personally can't see them coming out alive. Even if they get away with a short term senstence, their ID can be changed but they can't change their personality and faces, sooner or later people are bound to know where they are hiding or living in a new low profile, if ever freed, they are bound to face the true justice of the public.