Kids riding bikes with no lights on

[Paul Baldwin]

Originally Posted by Trevor

I never ever understand that attitude, if it is an offence then it is an offence.

I never understand that attitude either. Just because its the LAW it must be right to be applied in all circumstances, times, situations because its so well written, yeah right. Its that sort of attitude that alienates coppers to decent, respectfull people like myself who dont have a problem with them.
I've worked on police contracts in numerous police stations after having a full security check, my cousin was a copper, I went out with a girl who's sister and husband were both coppers. As a rule I really don't have a problem with them the vast majority of the time as I'm one of the people they are meant to protect and they do a thankless job.
That black and white attitude of some modern coppers really rubs though Discretion and common sense go a long way with decent people

Paul.

[CortraGTE]

I dont have any lights on my bike

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Paul Baldwin

I never understand that attitude either. Just because its the LAW it must be right to be applied in all circumstances, times, situations because its so well written, yeah right. Its that sort of attitude that alienates coppers to decent, respectfull people like myself who dont have a problem with them.

If your decent and honest your not going to need letting off by a copper?

The reason the police have lost respect has more to do with the circumstances they find them selves in through bad management decisions, underfunding, lack of officers etc.

Let's face it, decent, honest people have little or no dealings with the police, the only time they come into contact is when they need the officer's assistance because they have been assaulted, robbed, been a victim of some sort of crime. And that is the problem, nine times out of ten when you want or need a copper, there is not one to be had. 'Shed being broken into sir, we can get someone round tomorrow!' 'Chavs racing motocrossers up your road sir? We have no traffic officers and even if we did we can not chase them in case the chavs fall off.' I personally had a bum-bag stolen and the police did not even attend, when I phoned them they simply said the perp would be long gone and gave me a crime number.

Couple that with he fact that many "decent, honest" people think that using their phone whilst driving, or doing 38 MPH in a 30 limit is OK as long as they don't get caught and you can see the problem. And the problem is that when some people get away with something on a regular basis then they try getting away with something else, then something else....

The ONLY solution is that the police are not allowed to choose which offences they will ignore and which they will enforce. There must be ZERO tolerance of ALL offences. Everything must be enforced, every crime reported to the police must be promptly responded to and investigated.

Then the courts need sorting out.....

[MikeWarner]

Try beeping them and see how much abuse you get back. So much for being concerned over someone's safety.

[Paul Baldwin]

Did you read too many Judge Dredd comics as a kid Trevor?

Paul.

[lethal]

Originally Posted by Trevor

The ONLY solution is that the police are not allowed to choose which offences they will ignore and which they will enforce. There must be ZERO tolerance of ALL offences. Everything must be enforced, every crime reported to the police must be promptly responded to and investigated.

I can't believe you of all people are advocating the removal of an officers discretion.


You *want* a police state?

[Trevor]

No, I want a police officer who is compelled to act when they see an offence being committed rather than take the easy route and simply ignore it, I do not see how that makes a 'Police State'. It is then up to the CPS and courts to decide where to go from there. I am totally against the ever increasing list of fixed penalty offences and I despise Section 59 Police Reform. Act 2002, it is one of the worst pieces of legislation introduced in the last 50 years.

Edit: I am not saying everyone should be prosecuted at every opportunity, but their behaviour should be challenged by any officer who witnesses it, and not just ignored.

[lethal]

It creates a 'Police State' (or at least one definition of a police state) when the police have no discretion and are forced to arrest for even trivial offences. The populace then feels that the Police are working for the state rather than for the people.

Originally Posted by Trevor

Edit: I am not saying everyone should be prosecuted at every opportunity, but their behaviour should be challenged by any officer who witnesses it, and not just ignored.

That's the remit now and the situation as it was in the past.

The fact that the remit is not carried out as it should be is a failure of those who manage the police. (No doubt all the way back up to the government)

[Paul Baldwin]

Sorry Trevor but that does seem to conflict what you just said? Also, you can have run ins with the police at times through your life even if you are a good boy and their attitude towards you definately effects your attitude towards them, even if it's only something minor.
Aren't the courts now compelled to apply the letter of the law and not allowed to let common sense come into it anymore too? If thats so then what you are suggesting could be nothing else but a police state?

Paul.

[lethal]

Originally Posted by Paul Baldwin

Aren't the courts now compelled to apply the letter of the law and not allowed to let common sense come into it anymore too?

AFAIK, in criminal law, the courts are supposed to apply a common sense interpretation of the law.

It's probably a lack of the aforementioned that is causing problems.

[Rysee_sri_130]

i honestly got chased by a police car for riding my bike on the path with lights on at 3am coming home from work, i soon turned them off to get away the police are a joke

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by lethal

It creates a 'Police State' (or at least one definition of a police state) when the police have no discretion and are forced to arrest for even trivial offences.

The populace then feels that the Police are working for the state rather than for the people.

I know people who think that already. Even thought it is clearly not the case, as they are not forced to arrest anyone. And the use of Zero Tolerance I would advocate is one where the officer must challenge anti-social and illegal behavior, they can not choose to ignore it. That is nowhere near the same as officers going round arresting everyone.

Zero Tolerance based on the Ray Mallon method has proved it can, and it does bring public respect back to the police and an increase in MOP assistance and support. But then Ray Mallon got the sack, some say because he went to far, others say because he upset the status quo and caused too much work for the CPS and courts.

Zero Tolerance will not alienate people from the police and remove the public consent to police, although that has been hugely damaged already, by an attitude that the police are never there when you need them and speed cameras. Indeed a recent conversation I had with a few officers seemed to suggest that even they thought so, indeed when I asked the question "Have the police lost the public consent?" an immediate "Yes" was the unanimous answer.

Originally Posted by lethal

The fact that the remit is not carried out as it should be is a failure of those who manage the police. (No doubt all the way back up to the government)

I think it goes even deeper than that, I think it goes all the way to the civil servants that run the government.....

Did you know that until recently you could only be arrested for certain offences, and that has now gone out the window and the police can now arrest you for anything as long as they can later justify it? Abuses of Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 where it has been used to stop peaceful protesting are a prime example. That is something that is simply wrong, everyone should have the right to express their opinions in a peaceful way as long as it has a minimum impact on others carrying out their lawful business.

Just wait until the amendments to the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 come through though! Whilst some of the changes are absolutely necessary some are pretty vague and I hope the get remove before the amendments pass though the house.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Rysee_sri_130

i honestly got chased by a police car for riding my bike on the path with lights on at 3am coming home from work, i soon turned them off to get away the police are a joke

Your well hard you are.....

[daddy cav]

While I was still banned I rode to the train station one early morning to go to work and got hit by a car .
The car totally cut the corner and hit me pretty hard .
Luckily don't know how at all , but I managed to move my leg on the side he hit onto the opposite side of the crossbar .. dunno if it was reaction or what
He ripped the whole crank arm of on that side
Also broke of the brake lever that side and bent the handle bar .
He just asked if I was ok as I got off the floor pretty quick , was totally unhurt
Fast reactions saved me there I think .
We just both went our own ways , there was no blame or claim

[Rysee_sri_130]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Your well hard you are.....

i no yeh prpr ddged lyf ina cell

[Trevor]

lol. Imagine if you got banged up for failing to stop on a push bike, the lags would never believe it, they would think you were a nonse or something!

[wascool2]

I used to ride about 3 miles a night without lights on my bike before my mates moved house, If there was a car comming i would move right up onto the verge and wait for it to pass then carry on, I used to hold a sony ericsson K750i as my front light aswell lol, Anyways i was riding home one night and there was a car coming from behind so i got off and went up the verge but the car was the police, I just got asked where i was coming from and where i was going and got left.

Another night but i was in town getting drunk on vodka and southern comfort, i was totally plastered and one of my mates asked if i wanted to ride upto his house to get a couple of things, i said yes stupidly and at the top of a really steep and long hill i spotted the police turning onto the road i was on up ahead so i got off and started to shout at him lol, they stopped us and did the same again but this time they thought we were riding the bikes but we managed to talk our way out of it lol.

[screamer69]

Originally Posted by wayne451

They get right on my tits.

Our road is rife with pricks due to having a Spar at the end of the road where they like to hang out and be 'street' init.

I came out of there about a month back, possibly more, sparked up a fag and some little kid came over and asked if he could borrow a fag, I rather unpolitely advised him that I am not a free cigarette machine and to GTF and buy his own.

So, I am walking up the road back to the house and the little chav bastards start going past on their bikes, the one I wouldn't give a smoke to then turned round, had a run up towards me and dodged at the last second, meaning I stopped walking. I thought to myself that he was a twat. 30 seconds later he has looped around and same thing again. He came around for a third run and as he swerved at the last minute I didn't stop walking, just stepped 1' to my left (as he went to do his uber bunny hop into the road ) and sent the little **** and his bike on it's arse into the road. I just gave him a look as if to say 'Grow up you scrawny little twat!' and carried on walking.

I must have a run in a week with the wankers on my estate on average? Nearly always from little bastards asking me for cigs.

its the same round my way but the little bastards carry knifes

[mike261263]

Originally Posted by Trevor

I never ever understand that attitude, if it is an offence then it is an offence. So why is it taking the piss? Is it OK to break the law if it is early morning?

If i`m on my bike and there`s a pavement i`ll use it,..much safer than being passed by some of the morons who leave no room at all when they drive past.

[Paul Baldwin]

Originally Posted by mike261263

If i`m on my bike and there`s a pavement i`ll use it,..much safer than being passed by some of the morons who leave no room at all when they drive past.

Dont blame you Must admit I find I'm one of the very few people that actually indicates when you go round a cyclist nowadays, simple common sense but people cant be arsed, too much effort? If they are aproaching a blind bend I even dont go past, shock horror, instead of just risking it and then coming across something that needs to be avoided like so many do.

Paul.

[lukeykookey]

Originally Posted by Rysee_sri_130

i honestly got chased by a police car for riding my bike on the path with lights on at 3am coming home from work, i soon turned them off to get away the police are a joke

Lad knocking about on a bike at 3am, doing everything he can do to not get stopped.

The cop would think you were a billy burglar you tool. Oh, and they tried to stop you? Actually doing their job for once eh?

But hey, they are a joke. Get a grip, young man.

[Rysee_sri_130]

yeah riding home from work in a shirt an tie and like mike said people dont give you enough space and who wants to get hit by a drunk driver?

[Paul Baldwin]

Going on from this I was out and about today and saw yet another kid riding a bmx with no brake cables. I've noticed it quite a lot the last couple of years as I've been working on council estates most days. Is it just a fashion thing or do many now have the backpeddle style brakes so its not as stupid as it looks?

Paul.

[wascool2]

Originally Posted by Paul Baldwin

Going on from this I was out and about today and saw yet another kid riding a bmx with no brake cables. I've noticed it quite a lot the last couple of years as I've been working on council estates most days. Is it just a fashion thing or do many now have the backpeddle style brakes so its not as stupid as it looks?

Paul.

its more than likely that they use their feet on the back wheel, loads of kids do that around my area, i personally think its stupid.

[Paul Baldwin]

lol, really clever I'm sure. Maybe they're all a brighter than we think and remove all the weight and excess kit from there bikes to increase their power to weight ratio and limit drag. Bloody olympians

Paul.