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NOS good or bad?

4K views 123 replies 16 participants last post by  chip 
#1 ·
hi

i was just wondering what the general perception if nitrous oxide was on this site now...
dont get me wrong im not looking for an arguement here i just want to know if the generaql opinion has changed since i and a few others have started to use this mod on the vauxhall engines with increadable results...

so what do you guys say??

NOS is BS power?
NOS will kill my engine?
it doesnt last long enougth?
its not as good as conventional tuneing?
its too expensive?
i dont know enoughth about it therefore i could damage something by fitting it?
i cant insure my car?

or maybe your opinion is.., yes i would fit it in the future

as ive stated i just want to know for my own uses
all opinions will be appreatiated

many thanks, brian
 
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#52 ·
If the headgasket didnt blow, it would be impressive! LOL

If you use it on a pressure switch to turn it off it doesnt add anythin to your peak bhp, just torque arriving sooner when you nail the throttle, thats easy to see the benefits of really.

But fair enough, if you are of the "its cheating" school of thought then obviously you arent going to try it out.


Chip
 
#53 ·
T.F.S. said:
i have major issues with my throttle bodyed astra, it has no power from low rpm, if i hit WOT at 3000rpm in 5th a standard mini will come past me let alone a standard astra or an astra with an extra 100lbft of torque is just getting silly
You can't complain about that though - the power is higher up. Try changing down a gear or two.

chip said:
You do need a compressed gas sticker by law, like with an LPG car or any car fitted with a CO2 fire extinguisher.
I believe you only need the sticker if you are carring over a certain amount of gas. Not sure on the figures though.
 
#54 ·
I used to absolutely HATE nitrous. I still dislike it but see its potential. But as odders said its complete and utter laziness.

I loves minis, more than I love any vauxhall (sorry peeps) but I HATE the a series with a passion. So with a little influence from firends I got a little into vauxhalls, did valver conversion on a nova and really got into them. But i still like my mini so I decided to put a calibra turbo engine in it.

This will create a fast car, no one can deny that. If you nitrous injected it it would become a very fast car. ver very fast. However, I don't want to constantly fill up bottle and spend money. I wnat power there all the time. This is why I am going to tune my turbo, as beinga simple bloke I wnat to put the key in the ignition start the car and drive to a petrol station to fill it up. As I recall they don't serve nitorus at my local esso. And yes I understand you could say it would only work when you are really booting it, that when the nitorus would get used. That would be all the time, useless to me.

Thi si why i dislike it to much having to drive to swindon (nearest place) to fill up (15 miles) I would use the nitorus all the way home and have to drive back to fill up. hwts the point in that. I am not building the car so that every time I drive it I have to think about filling it with nitrous. I don't mind having that one second of lag as long as I know that when she does come up on boost I have 300 bhp to play with all the time. not when my bottle is filled. ANother thing to rememeber is my mini weighs considereably less than for example a let nova, and so will accelrate at a quicker rate as it is, and have smaller wheels, again incresing its acceleration.

This is why I dislike it, If i liked it, all i would do is put a standard XE in my mini and nitrous it to 300 bhp. But that would just be boring because it would be bloody easy! Its taken alot more thought to fit the turbo engine in, deisgning pipe work, frame differences, intercooler, engine positioning etc etc (remember its ina mini not a nova!!) I wnat to build my car to my spec not just buy for example something already done and just add nitrous, I will have a story to go with my car which again will make it more fun.

I'm sure lots of you boys nitrous could beat me down the strip in your nitroused cavs and cally turbos etc, but I sat doen and built my car from scratch, I didn't just buy a car and add nitrous which in my opinion is lazyness

anyway thats my 2ps worth, sorry to bore you lot lol

Rich
 
#55 ·
Quite surprised you went out and spent 1200 quid on a ready made frame complete with all the front suspension etc that you then only have to make a couple of basic cuts and shuts in to fit a LET rather than the XE it was designed for, if you wanted it to feel like it was "all your own work" surely it would have been far more "your project" if you did what your mate glenn did and built the frame from scratch?
Or if you bought a blank ECU for the turbo and tuned it from scratch rather than off the shelf tuning?
That would involve learning far more about the engine and how it works.

I guess different things seem like cheating to different people.

Personally until i start with a blank ecu, create the loom and program it from scratch i wont consider it "my spec of engine" really.
Likewise until i build a car from scratch (which im sure i never will TBH, its just too time consuming and im sure ill never aquire the skills id need to do the whole thing anyway, designing the chassis, welding it up, making fibreglass boypanels etc) ill never really consider it totally "my car", its only natural to pick and chose which bits of a project you do yourself, ANY project based on a commerically available kit or even using a commerically available engine is only ever going to be partially your own work in the grand sceme of things.

Someone like carl with the 11.7 second A series would consider your project a total shortcut, you've copped out and just bought in a more powerful engine rather than tuning an engine you know to be hard work, and youve bought in the frame to fit it.
To other people it will seem like a tremendous achievement and be very impressive, just all depends on someones point of view i guess.

Personally i think its a great idea, but i think you will struggle a little more than you are anticipating with traction, but then if you do i guess thats a good opportunity to change to a different spec of engine, these things always tend to be evolutionary and never finished.


Chip
p.s
You cant really just "nitrous an XE to 300bhp" that a bit like saying, just wind the boost on a let up to 300bhp, there is a bit more to it than that, and the amount of work invovled in rebuilding the engine is going to be similar, well, in fact harder on the XE as the standard pistsons cant cope where as the LET ones can, as someone else (the factory) has already fitted forged ones for you, so it gives you a headstart, all be a tiny one as these modern engines are a piece of cake to rip apart and put back together with different pistons anyway, everything just generally fits together so nicely!

Chip
 
#56 ·
no offense like chip, but seeing as you can't even weld or machine metal work your idea of basic "cuts and shuts"is slightly misguided.

there is nothing left original of the back of the frame, or the engine mounts or the frame braces. And yes, In hindesight me and james should have made our own frame rather than redesign
andys frame to suit ourselves.

I know I haven't built the car from scratch, but I have taken a basic 1982 mini 1000 auto and made it into what it is, which in my opinion is a complete rebuild and redesign from scratch.

True I haven't made a great deal of modifcation to the engine, I have merely changed the inlet cam, headgasket for a slightly lower CR one (ie thicker), changed the big end bearings, and rebuilt the gearbox with new bearings and new syncromesh rings.

I have not touched the elctronics side of the engine, its not a field I am capable of, same as you with welding and machining, but each to their own. when you have one day built your own ECU and wiring loom, I would love to see it and know how it works as maybe one day I will do my own, but as it is, All I have done is rebuilt the car loom and mated it to the ECU loom. But its works, and thats all I ask of it

Rich
 
#57 ·
Good or Bad?

Every one here because they only polish?

468 ci of perfect square, huge internal friction, 1:1.56 R/S ratio :mad:

However, mains modified to flow more oil (cooling), still requires 80 psi@ 5750 to supply MINIMUM amount of oil, to BE's, due to centrifugal forces.

Also forced LE oiling.

Florida, kids Disnyland me, Talking to ******** at local strip :p

I ONCE got a "VK" NO2 cylinder (bp grade), for £11.11, value or what! (just needed to invert to refill), (BTW also used over 50 VK size other gas per month so that helped).

It's GOOD, BAD, & UGLY.

Its not 50%+ by volume O2.

TFS, you stripped the pins yet?

DOUGAL
 
#58 ·
Rich, i can weld and operate a lathe etc, although i certainly cant claim to be some sort of fantastic engineer like Dodd or fabricator like Ferg (i thought it was him who did the mods to your frame for you), like you say the programming side of things is obviously my area of expertise but I still can certainly do the sort of welding you are talking about there, its relatively easy with nice clean metal tubing on a brand new frame, its welding filler to rust i have problems with generally (shame as that covers most minis and vauxhalls, LOL)
I dont think ill ever be able to weld as "pretty" as Ferg though no matter how much practice i get, its weird how some people have such a talent for it, that boy is certainly gifted and its a real bonus to you having him right on your doorstep to do all your fabrication work for you.

Did he ever get started on that 4wd nova you were chatting about, or has he decided not to bother now?

Chip
 
#59 ·
observer said:
....i mean u can add 300bhp nos to a 100bhp fiesta and have 400bhp!! whats impressive about that?:rolleyes:
...or you could add 900bhp to that same fiesta and have a 1000bhp car. Nothing impressive about that either?
I don't see the logic here:confused:

NOS is perceived as plug'n'play, cheapest horsepower you can get.
But in reality it's not 100% plug'n'pray, if you're going for serious gains quite a lot has to be adjusted and/or enhanced
It's not that cheap in the long term either, it's that your money outflow follows a different pattern.
With a supercharger or a turbo you spend a lot up front and then less afterwards as you debug - maintain
With nitrous the initial outlay might be smaller (for the same bhp) but maintenance bites every week if you use the thing often, so after a few years you wouldn't want to do the sums and calculate how much it has really costyalmao

I say that it's BS power (*my* definition of BS) because I'm not keen to sacrifice boot space for a bottle - certainly not a big one like TFS'. But then again I don't sacrifice this space even for ICE, when clearly others think it's worth it.
The idea of paying for regular refills as often as filling the tank really puts me off (if you don't use the thing then why drag all the gear along?), but clearly others don't mind that.

If you had a chance to drive a nice progressive setup like TFS' then you'd understand why it's so addictive. It feels like you've got a bigger turbo/intercooler with none of the drawbacks (lag, heat, underbonnet space etc). There's no way to tell that there's nitrous involved just by driving the car - very seamless.:beer:
 
#60 · (Edited)
John, thats a pretty good summary of what it is like driving a nitrous car (ie seemless), you cant actually tell nitrous is fitted to a car when you drive it, it feel like someone has just fitted and extra cylinder or two to the engine.

The thing is with nitrous, its a tuning aid like any other, so for good results it will involve other changes, a bit like a camshaft, if you fit a slightly hotter cam to you motor you dont really need to change anything else, but for something really lairy you need different management, solid lifters, higher cr etc

Your comments about cost of the refills are pretty valid too, it certainly would work out very expesnive if you are using nitrous every day driving to work and back etc, but for people who only want to use the nitrous for 1/4 mile days (like fenix who posted earlier in this thread) or the occasional traffic light situation, it makes a lot of sense, and probably works out cheaper to buy the occasional refill than it does to run a turbo with the increased costs that involves (even simple stuff like worse mpg), if you drive your car sensible most of the time, and only drive like hell occastionally, then its not just the initial cost that works out cheaper with nitrous, its the running costs too as you dont increase the service costs or fuel consumption of your engine like you do with other methods of tuning.


Chip
 
#61 ·
No offense again chip but you have contradicated yourself. The only weld to have is a neat weld, if its not neat, its not usually strong its just pigeon ****. Me and james did my frame I did all the mounts (made new ones and the brace bars and ol ferg did the frame).

Look i don't mean to sound off here, but I know for a fact it is beyond your capabilities, I looked under the sill of that mk2 astra you had pulled back the skirt. I'm sorry thats not welding, thats disgusting :eek: , but this isn't the issue here, its about nitrous which i know nohing about and you would appear to know lots about.

Rich
 
#62 ·
i dont like nos personally, i'm more of a mind to build an engine and develop it over time trying different things, its almost as if nos is too easy, i mean you just fit it and play with the controller and the jet sizes, i get more satisfaction from building an engine from scratch, addmitedlygetting specialists to do some work for me(balancing/tuftriding etc) but i feel like i've achieved something by building it, thats my 2p anyhow:)
 
#64 · (Edited)
Rich, this thread really isnt intended to be about my welding, and i find it quite unnerving how obsessed with me you seem to be on here at times every thread you join you have to start discussing details about me or my personal life no matter what the orginal thread subject, its like being stalked or something. :rolleyes:
But for the refernce, the astra in question the weld was pretty neat, but to seal it up quickly i smeared it in silicon sealer as it was raining outside, and i needed to go straight from the ramp to the MOT station so i wanted something water proof straight away, so its the silicon sealer you were probably looking at, but anyway its a few hundred quid nail that i only bought as an engine donor and am just driving till it finally rots apart as a way of keeping the mileage off any of our proper cars.
Likewise its a bit disturbing that you waited for me to clear off somewhere and then started crawling around in the mud examining the underneath of my car to see if there was anything you could post on MIG about! lmao


Region17c, thats a complete nonsense, sure you can just fit nitrous and play about a bit and get good results, but if you really want to take it to the limits its as much work as any other engine, to get the best from any engine you look at every component and start from the ground up, with or without nitrous.
You CAN just fit a kit and see some pretty reasonable gains, but for where im heading personally (ie well over 300bhp) you are looking at forged pistons, ARP rod bolts, ARP head bolts, steel head gasket, custom management etc, same as you would with a turbo or throttle bodies, its just as much effort, the only difference is the result is a faster car.



Chip
 
#65 ·
chip
thought this thread was started by tfs to get opinions from people about nos, not to prove or dis prove anything, but hey! i dont like nitrous, accept it, i dont see it as the same as normal engine building because at the end of the day, when the bottle runs out, you take half your power away, now i know you can run out of petrol, but any engine can so thats not really the same, this is my opinion, thanks
 
#66 ·
hi

spending thousands of pounds on new engine parts and spending hours at rolling roads at horrific expense is not my idea of fun
nor is haveing my car off the road for three months due to engine conversion my idea of fun
ive done all of this before and you do not get any magical feeling about doing the above

ill tell you what feels good........
smashing the best time for a calibra turbo on the strip on your first couple of runs ever, with standard clutch, injectors, intercooler, turbo, 100.000mile engine etc etc
beating people who have done the above and showing what a complete waste of time and money it is..!!
and proveing that my peers were wrong about my way of doing it

and do you know whats even better than that....
knowing that you was not putting down anywhere near your optimum time and knowing that you can do better

region
you are right i only wanted a few opinions and im grateful to the members who have provided it..
but myself and chip cant help but stick up for our chosen tuning methods now the thread is comeing to a close


regards, brian
 
#67 ·
Thats fine, i understand the whole "bottle running out" reluctance, it was only the fact you were implying you didnt need to build an engine properly that i was disagreeing with.

Chip
 
#71 ·
region17rc said:
hmmm, still think nine out of ten nos users will bolt nos to a near stock engine, or at least not build their engine specifically for nitrous
EXACTLY the same as 9/10 people with an uprated cam
or 9/10 people with a phase kit
or 9/10 people with a modified head

Nitrous is no different to any other tuning product in that you can either just bolt it on or you can build the engine to properly make use of it.

The only ways in which it differs are:
1) the gains are bloody enormous
2) rather annoyingly the bottle runs out from time to time


Chip
 
#72 ·
My own belief is that phase kits are a complete cop-out for people who dont actaully understand their engine well enough to do the job themself, hence instead of a phase kit, ive bought WOLF EMS for my LET, and ive fitted a MLS head gasket, its got 2.1 low compression forged pistons and vernier pulleys etc.

Ie unlike most turbo users im doing the job properly, but thats nothing to do with anything other than my own mentality, i will be building my nitrous engine in my other nova in much the same way.
Likewise i was equally thorough building my mini engine which is just on a single carb, some people like to do the whole job, other people like plug and play toys, nitrous suits BOTH those applications.


Chip
 
#73 ·
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by region17rc
hmmm, still think nine out of ten nos users will bolt nos to a near stock engine, or at least not build their engine specifically for nitrous


hi

but thats the best bit!!!
the car ticks over as normal because its standardish and it does all the thing that a modded engine dont like to do, hence better driveability.
the car is normal as far as passengers are concerned but as soon as you hit WOT that impretza or even that aston martin vantage is in a real struggle to keep up, the best of both worlds i say!!!!!

regards, brian
 
#74 ·
go to dissagree really, building an engine speciffically for nitrous is completely different from adding a cam, then a filter, etc, thats kinda my point really, you can build up bit by bit an engine, work on it, develop it, if you put nitrous on, thats it, nitrosed, done, its the nitrous making most of the power and governing the engine,

as for the comment about phase kits, yeas they arent the best way to tune a turboed car, but there is no way you can call them a cop out, they are a cheaop way to get more power form your engine without needing the expertise to map an ecu or whatever, by your analagy everyone who fits an airfilter should be getting tbs and mapping the ecu, otherwise they are copping out, think not, just different levels of wanting to tune your engine
 
#75 ·
T.F.S. said:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by region17rc
hmmm, still think nine out of ten nos users will bolt nos to a near stock engine, or at least not build their engine specifically for nitrous


hi

but thats the best bit!!!
the car ticks over as normal because its standardish and it does all the thing that a modded engine dont like to do, hence better driveability.
the car is normal as far as passengers are concerned but as soon as you hit WOT that impretza or even that aston martin vantage is in a real struggle to keep up, the best of both worlds i say!!!!!

regards, brian
couldnt agree more, see your point totally, and i do see the advantage of nitrous, its just not for me, thats all:beer:
 
#76 ·
region17rc said:
go to dissagree really, building an engine speciffically for nitrous is completely different from adding a cam, then a filter, etc, thats kinda my point really, you can build up bit by bit an engine, work on it, develop it, if you put nitrous on, thats it, nitrosed, done, its the nitrous making most of the power and governing the engine,

as for the comment about phase kits, yeas they arent the best way to tune a turboed car, but there is no way you can call them a cop out, they are a cheaop way to get more power form your engine without needing the expertise to map an ecu or whatever, by your analagy everyone who fits an airfilter should be getting tbs and mapping the ecu, otherwise they are copping out, think not, just different levels of wanting to tune your engine
PMSL!


Read that back mate, its SO funny, how exactly is a phase kit different from a basic nitrous instalation because your description of one works perfectly for the other and vice versa.

Im not saying everyone with a different cam should have TBs and a custom ECU, or that everyone with nitrous should do a total engine build specced for nitrous, im just saying that in both instances you can, or you can just fit it to the engine you have and see smaller gains, any of
cams
headwork
nitrous
phase conversion
TBs
ECU

can be fitted on their own, or with a complete engine rebuild to optimise the whole spec to work better, thats the same for ALL tuning and is no different with nitrous.
If you change cam then to get the most from your engine you should raise the CR etc
You dont HAVE to, but you have that choice, same with nitrous, you dont HAVE to lower the cr to allow you to run more, but you can if you want.

Chip
 
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