i have a 77lb bottle
Brian, im getting one of those too soon hopefully, that should solve any issues with filling up, as there is nowhere very near me that does it, and me and cally (my bird) both have a bit of an appetite for using it!
I think it needs to be investigated, yes.Originally posted by T.F.S.
you think we need to retard after my 18month test?
Measurements are much more effective than internet speculation
Perhaps the cooling effect under full boost limits the need for extra spark retarding, and in the case of large amounts of gas (100bhp+) may even negate it.
But an engine can go full thottle in conditions other than full boost, and that's where a series of dyno runs can be eye-opening.
No two engines are the same - you have a unique combination of cam timing, static CR, chamber shape, nitrous injection and fuelling. The chances of the stock LET ignition timing being optimal (indeed safe) for every combination of revs/load/NOS are pretty slim
If it were my car, and I din't want to go the full hog remapping etc, I'd play it safe and avoid full throttle below 3500rpm.
do you think my engine failure was brought forward by lack of retard or more due to the fact that the engine had covered 100.000miles and had a serious lack of compression on more than 1 cylinder?
My guess is that there was a flame front at the wrong place and the wrong time. From then on, it was an avalanche. A tired engine, weak rods etc create a path for the links of the chain to break. It doesn't necessarily mean that stronger rod bolts would have saved it - maybe something else would give way 1/1000nd of a second later <who knows?>
We build the engine as strong as possible - but when flame fronts collide, these forces are tremendous. Rods shatter, pistons disintegrate. There's always a weakest link in every chain. One just hopes that the weakest link will be the head gasket (easiest to fix)
Best person to talk to about the ignition (and also revs its safe to use nitrous from on your engine) would have to be trevor.
Agree with JohnA though that measuring and testing is the best way to go, any assumption (no matter how much wisdom its based on) is only ever going to be a good guess at the end of the day.
i dont really have a problem with it when people stuff nitrous on an all ready tuned engine. its just when its used as a replacement for tuning that it niggles me. arm the system and youve got the equivelant of headwork and throttle bodies at your toes.
noone has any patience anymore, not prepared to work for anything, nitros on a standard engine is just laziness to me. nowadays everyone wants everthing handed on a plate, and in my eyes nitrous does just that.
park two XE'd cars next to each other, one where its got 250bhp from conventional tuning, the other haa 150 shot of nitrous. guess which owner i'd be chin-wagging with, and which engine i'd be fawning over ?
Oddball, I agree totally that it should only be one of many ways in which you enhance the performance of your car.
What makes it even worse than the picture you paint though, is that if those two XE engined cars (one with 6K and 6 months of evenings and weekend put into making it 250bhp on throttle bodies and one that was standard plus nitrous) were to then go up the quarter mile, the lazy kuunt with the nitrous would be the one winning!
The nitrous, I would think, as it has 50 more bhp (300 vs 250)lmaoOriginally posted by 0ddball
..park two XE'd cars next to each other, one where its got 250bhp from conventional tuning, the other haa 150 shot of nitrous. guess which owner i'd be chin-wagging with, and which engine i'd be fawning over ?
LOL, i meant two cars both with 250bhp.
As the extra torque from the nitrous car would be immense and the power delivery would be more controllable.
well my maths aint that bad, but i was under the impression nitrous kits dont make anywhere near the figure on the tin, on n/a cars, hence 150 shot (to increase about 100)
oddball, a nitrous kit if used correctly will produce roughly the figure quoted, sometimes a little more and sometimes a little less (in the case of turbos its normally a lot more).
The reason that most 75bhp kits dont produce 75bhp is that people are either running a very "safe" (ie rich) mixture to ensure temps stay right down, or because they have reached the limit of one or more other components.
If you fit a 75bhp progressive kit to an XE car on old tired leads and bosch 4 (aka crap) plugs and a corroded distibutor you would be lucky to see 25bhp, as the charge density makes it so difficult for the spark to jump the plug gap that it ends up trapped there till the pressure is less (ie later in the cycle) effectively backing off the timing a great deal. However, take the same engine and fit new BERU or Magnecore leads, some decent non-resitor plugs, new cap and rotor arm and you will see the 75bhp you are expecting.
hope you are well..
it is true that a lot of the time on a N/A car you have to put a bit more in to get the quoted INPUT power out
this is where there is confusion.....its a theoritical input figure
if both cars had an identical output bhp power the n20 car would kill the normally tuned car hands down on any rpm in any gear up and down hills blah blah blah
it the torque as chip states!!!
bhp sells engines, torque wins races
i have major issues with my throttle bodyed astra, it has no power from low rpm, if i hit WOT at 3000rpm in 5th a standard mini will come past me let alone a standard astra or an astra with an extra 100lbft of torque is just getting silly
the n20 car would be the most powerful
the most driveable
the cheapest to build/run
the easyest to disasemble and sell when you are finished with it
of couse my statements are not to detract from chips post, most people do not have their systems set up properly
lmao you have the same opinion of them as me thenOriginally posted by chip
bosch 4 (aka crap)
isnt it illegal to use nitrous-oxide on the road though???
oddball, that isnt an opinion, thats a fact, far too much metal in the combustion chamber, leads to hot spots that in turn can cause detonation
nitrous oxide is perfectly road legal.
I heard it wasnt - probably an incorrect rumour then.
TBH odders while looking at using nitrous on a car i've had to look more in detail to the effects it will have on the engine as it is so easy and accessible.
If I whack carbs or throttle bodies on a car I know what effect they will have and know what power i'm likely to achieve (quite a bit less than limits of bottom end components).
With nitrous the power depends on a lot of things and certainly on an NA car means going in a completely different direction to std tuning. IE reduce compression ratio, don't up the cam profile, retard ignition.
Then as big power is easily accessible you've got to rely on your own knowledge and that of others to find out what bits are likely to go wrong at what power.
Rod bolts, pistons,clutch etc
Nitrous can be used mixed with other forms of tuning to give good results. as can supercharges complementing turbos or the same with tb's + turbo.
However just like turbo,supercharging, n/a it is a tuning route in its own right and except for induction a powerful nitrous fed engine will still have a massive level of complexity to it.
Enginewise, I would think that it's as legal as a turbo - it provides more oxygen to the engine.
If you turbocharge your car and do not inform your insurance, you're effectively driving uninsured. Same with NOS.
Technically, I'm not sure if UK law stiputlates that you need a sticker because of the compressed gas cylinder. Others here might know...
just as I was hoping to bung a 150bhp jet on my Saxo West Coast...
best thing you could do to a west coast mate.Originally posted by Davo
just as I was hoping to bung a 150bhp jet on my Saxo West Coast...
Well except for the 2 gallons of 4 star + match routine.
Nitrous is nice in that you can use it in one of several ways.
You can either go the "max power route" and just slap on a basic kit.
Or you can do like TFS or me and use it to extract as much power as possible from a standard engine using a controller.
Or you can do what i intend to do next and modify the engine to allow it to run more nitrous (im using programmable engine management to allow me to knock the timing back when on the nitrous and ill be lowing the CR a touch too)
Or you can do like carl (one of trevs famous customers) has done and completely build the engine from the ground up entirely to use as much nitrous as possible without caring about performance when not on the gas.
This is the point that people miss COMPLETELY 9/10 times when talking about nitrous, its NOT just a plug and play option like a filter, its so much more complex than that and has enormous potential.
I will be running 300bhp from an XE by the end of next year probably if i go down the route im currently planning, and ill still be making more than stock power whilst off the gas as well as ill be using better engine management and will do some head work too so i can more than get back the power ive lost by lowering the compression slightly (ill also advance the timing when not on gas to make up a bit for the lack in compression)
as i understand it you have toi display a sticker if you are transporting any kind of pressureised gas/liquid
same as a fire extinguisher
You do need a compressed gas sticker by law, like with an LPG car or any car fitted with a CO2 fire extinguisher.
sorry brian, your reply wasnt there when i typed mine, didnt mean to repeat what you were saying