Turbo & Supercharged engine

[andycal]

This is just one of hose spontaneous thoughts but has anyone successfully fitted a Supercharger to run along side as Turbo engine?

In reality the Supercharger spins up a lot quicker than the turbo with it being belt driven etc, so this could take up any lag from the turbo whilst it is spinning up to acheive max boost!

Now in theory you would fit the Supercharger between the Turbo & Air filter and this would obviously spin and draw in the air before the turbo reaches its boost, thus providing you with an initial boost where you would normally experience lag, as i said before! and the benefit of this extra charge of air brought about by the supercharger would also cause the turbo to spin up quicker.

The next benefit of this, is that as we all know Superchargers dont provide the power for as long a period as a Turbo, so as the supercharger die's out so to speak the turbo would be at its maximum boost (or there abouts).

Finally in my small knowledge of Superchargers, I understand that they are more or less totally mechanically operated, so there's no need for a special ECU etc to run them which would simplify this quite a lot and also you would proabably need to fit a dumpvalve between the Turbo & Supercharger to stop it from stalling due to the air trapped between the Turbo & itself??

Therefore in vague terms, from the moment you accelerate you will have the initial power response that you require (and a hell of a lot more), untill the turbo reaches its max boost...Wehay!!

Sorry if this has bored anyone but like i say it was just one of those thought's!!

[NotNormal]

There a Fiesta Mk1 runs up at Santa Pod quite a bit which runs a CVH Turbo lump along with a Supercharger. Absolutely amazing work gone into it under the bonnet and noises it makes are amazing. I think the words jet plane come to mind. I'm sure this is not the only one but it certainly springs to mind. A friend who works for an Audi tuning firm said that the New Audi A8 may be supercharged and Turbo'd from factory !!!!!

[WeeKenny]

An iteresting thought

There was a special edition micra yes micra that was dual charged (super and turbo) must work if a factory car had it.

As I belive it is very complex and expensive an integra in LAX POWER had it done, some good engine pics that may be of some help. I dont have em though (of no help)

[cavvysri]

i`m sure a couple of group b rally cars had that set up, but sounds a wee bit pricey.

[Richie]

Yep and it was called the Nissan March 3HB Super Turbo. Find more info here - http://members.surfeu.fi/gobbe/micra.html

[Almost a Turbo]

You old guys will remember the cars iv only read about, the Lancia S4 (think it was S4) combined both for a 400bhp output.

They made a road goer at about 250 bhp

[andycal]

You must admit though, it would be an amazing achievement to actually do this mod successfully to your own car! yourself!!

You'd be attracting quite a lot of interest..

By the way out of interest, does the setup sound feasable to you all??

[kentSR]

so does a supercharger need a ecu/injection to work?

would it work on a carb enginee?

[Noz]

Superchargers with carbs are quite easy, the carb should take care of any more air and add the appropriate fuel. However, a supercharged injected system should be reprogrammed to suit. Consider that people rechip motors after an airfilter/exhaust swap, and thats only a mild air increase.

When I look again at turboing or supercharging my car, it is likely that the MBE management stuff will go in first. AFAIK, that deals with airflow better than the original stuff, so should make 'charging alot easier.

You can also combine chargers with throttle bodies, if you fancy having a go at that!!! Or go the Supra route, and use twin turbos, one big and one small (my particular favourite). But don't forget, any power increase has got to be carried by the engine. I believe theres already a post somewhere here of someone pushing their pistons further than they can go. You'll only get so far before you reach the engine limit.

[AdrianH]

When I used to own one, I remember the MR2 website had someone with a "Twincharger" combination in his Mk I MR2. Chap's in the States.

I think he added a turbo unit to the 4A-GZE supercharged engine. Something close to 300 horses in a pre-1000kg car (standard weight).

Anybody wanna guess how fast that can be?

[JohnnyB]

If you give Power+ Engineering a call one of the RR guys there built a turbo+super charged MkI Fiesta. Its running a 1600 block and the engine bay is a little tight, thats all I know. His namr was Chris I think.

Oh yeah, I think it runs 13 sec quarters.

Ben.

[Almost a Turbo]

Regal deo a turbo charger, cant this be added.

The only reason i bought a turbo was to in time try this mod after seeing an S4.

Doesnt the air flow meter compensate for the extra air with more fuel?

Im new to injections!

[TRBO!!]

Maybe one problem with the type of setup in the first thread, would be that the Supercharger would surely just be operating as a type of air intake to draw air up to the Turbo quicker so that it obviously would reach its max boost quicker and reduce the lag to virtually nothing!

The reason it would be only doing this would be due to the fact that a pressure would not be able to be acheived between the supercharger & the inlet (as any turbo or supercharger normally runs) because the turbo is in the way and would prevent this, the only time you would get the pressure is when the turbo spins fast enough to allow this. Which means that you would not see the real benefits of how the supercharger should work.

A very costly piece of kit to be used as a method of chanelling more air to the turbo quicker!

What about the Supercharger alternatives available such as 'Turbo Zef' (or whatever its called), they cost around £300 and claim they can be fitted to any car without any extra electronics etc, okay they may not have as good benefits as a Supercharger but if one of these were fitted before the turbo would that work and reduce the lag considerably?

[WeeKenny]

ya mean turbo zet and these sounded like a bag of $h1te to me untill a mag had a 106 with a few mods then added a zet and got an extra 20ish bhp.

[Almost a Turbo]

What about, a custom manifold pushing the turbo further down it, then a supercharger blowing into the exhaust manifold, thus getting the turbo upto speed and also compensating for the bigger distance between the block and the head,

Fuelling wouldnt be a problem, Just need an even bigger bore exhaust!

[Almost a Turbo]

If i do say so myself i think i might be onto something, after serious thought in the bath.

If you had a dump valve aswell, just think of the sound as it dumps even more air from thr supercharger.

[TRBO!!]

Yep I think thats the best way it could be done, but the only thing is that the Supercharger would only be drawing air which is exiting the engine if i've understood you correctly?

But is seems a very feasable idea!

I would have to see it done though before i tried it myself..

[Almost a Turbo]

No, the supercharger would be drawing fresh cold air just to blow onto the impeller., it would also bring turbo temperature down!

A pipe entering the exaust manifold between the head and the turbo.

[TRBO!!]

Now I know what you mean!!

You'd obviously need an extra air filter but it wouldn't need another dump valve.

Andy..

[Ste_nova]

most fire engines are supercharged and turbo'd

[Almost a Turbo]

Been thinking, a problem. the supercharger would have to produce enough boost, even when idle to stop the exhaust blowing back through, if you know what i mean.

Id be interested to hear the sounds made!

[Cod]

Just i thought i a read your thoghts....... an oscillator fitted between the dump valve and the inlet on the turbo..... surely this would compensate for the decrease in the amount of air required to make the engine idle.
This would obviously have to be fitted on some sort of pivoting mechanism to allow full oscillation through 360 degrees, the more air that was pulled through the faster the oscillating period.

just a thought.....

[Peter Griffon]

One thing you haven't thought about is the amount of heat this would cause. You would need a fecking big intercooler. The supercharger would heat up the air, the the warm air will be blown into the hot turbocharger = very hot air. Not much good for performance. Most superchargers don't actualy compress the air, they just displace it i.e. they will blow the air into the inlet rather than compressing it (bugger, that didn't even make sence to me). My boat engine is supercharged, but it is odd as it is a 2-stroke diesel. Massive thing. Getting something like this to run would be very hard. I would go for either a supercharged engine, or a bigger turbocharger and intercooler.