Isuzu turbo diesel tuning guide

[DutchNovaDiesel]

Hmmm, maps...look what i found in my archive:



RHF info from: http://www.ihi-turbo.com/turbo_RHE-RHF.htm

Turbo's are not going to be a big problem, adapters, hoses etc. can be made,
it's the fuelling that needs to keep up...and d.i.y. pump modifications

[Jack]

Do you think a pump from another engine might fit? The pump from the 3.1 looks very similar, but I don't know how it's characteristics differ from the 1.7.

[santaclaus]

Just looking for a cheap and simple way for a bolt on up grade for the masses Dutchnova , thats all ---- not everyone has means to make an adaptor and new down pipe etc etc , if the engines to make a genuine alternative to a XE conversion which i think it has the potential to be , its worth looking into all possibilities , even if they come to nothing


if ya looking for more fuel , ill let ya know what size plunger head we have in our pumps as soon as i can open one , usually it is contained within the bosch's serial number , but looking at mine , i think we have one of the few pumps that dont specify it , - but as a quick reference , the pumps main shaft size can give clues - 17mm shaft = anything up to 9mm head - 20mm shaft = 10mm and up wards , i would look into swapping your injector nozzles as a first port of call though ( before getting into swapping the plunger head ), e.g merc nozzles etc > ideally we should gather a list between us all on what part number nozzles are available to our injectors -


If we are unfortunate enough to have the smaller shaft pump , we may inevitably may have to look into another bosch ve from another motor , as the smaller diameter pump shaft has a tendency to snap when the plunger / head is up graded


hopefully this will not be the case as swapping about the cam plate , possible governor assembly and timing changes on another pump to help suit our engine , could prove a bit too much trial and error ,


Also consider a new boost aneriod pin ( it wont give any more overall fuelling but it will give a more aggressive and earlier fuel curve ) I have read some where to try a rover pin , probably from a 200 or something i expect , the part number is 1 463 123 531 if anyone knows


FRIDGE > i must apologise mate , you were bang on with the landy 300 being non electronic/ecu and still direct injection rotary pump , theres many others too , transit smileys / peugeot boxer 2.5TDI / fiat ducato 2.5 / Kia 2.9L DOHC / VW transporter 2.8 TDI etc , so yeah either find one thats a bosch and mix and match some bits , as some are not suited to our higher redline or make up an adaptor plate to help another locate up etc,

In fact ive been so taken with the proposition that i came close to winning a 16v cdti 1.7 isuzu/vauxhall head off of ebay in the past week lmao, - but reflecting on it now , discretion may have proved the better part of valour , as im sure the 16v head would have flowed and worked well , But i still would of had to of purchased the inlet and sorted new pipe work - timing belt + pulleys and hoped they worked with the original bottom end - fabricate an exhaust manifold , pump , pipes , injectors , and very probably the di pistons , - just buying a dti or cdti complete , doesnt seem a probable proposition either unless you have the funds , as at £500 plus for one doesn't seem economically viable when you could have the 8v head ported professionally for a fraction of the price

Shame , $$$$ 's always seem to get in the way of a good idea


sorry for the long post guys

[Jack]

A CDTI head from a Civic would be cool, , but it would only be worth doing IMO if you made some custom manifolds and used a different turbo. No doubt common rail is the way to go to squeeze every last drop of power from a diesel engine.

Don't forget the ECU will probably need a crapload of sensors for crank position, coolant temperature, manifold pressure, air flow...etc.

[santaclaus]

No No Jack , ECU = - wanna keep things old skool lmaolmao

[Jack]

Ah, so just using the head with lovely 16v awesome and using the lovely 8v pump?

[duckruls]

I have managed to contact a guy in portugal through another forum who seems to know a lot about the Isuzu motor and had mentioned using the VNT20 turbo, I have fired across a couple of questions and received the following info:

VNT20 fitted and running 2.5 bar boost.

The inj pump has an 11mm piston, they change this to a 12mm piston from a pump fitted to an iveco motor.

They are still reliable running 2.5 bar boost, the only issue seems to be that the engine can overheat when pushing it if you don't keep an eye on it (this happens to standard ones if your driving fast on the motorway for any period of time).

I've asked a further question about the injectors and if the power output of the vnt20 powered isuzu is known.

[santaclaus]

Nice one duckruls , great info , im after a 12mm piston , - a vnt20 should give one of our engines any where from 170 hp up to 230hp , all depends on what trim compressor vnt20 those guys have choosen , i wonder what they are reving too ? as i cant imagine they have managed to figure a way to control the vanes electronically like stock ecu , so they must of locked the vanes in a single postion and are using a conventional wastegate , must be bit of a lag monster lollmao

PISTON IN OUR PUMPS I CAN VERIFY ONLY THE OTHER NIGHT ARE 10MM (not 11), which i was bloody pleased about , means we have the larger 20mm drive shaft -
As it goes 10mm on a idi diesel are quite sought after in some circles , so we are very lucky -

FUEL WONT BE TOO MUCH OF AN ISSUE TO MOST , A RHB4 WONT TROUBLE A 10MM THATS FOR SURE !
only when you can clear up your smoke trail by adding more boost , or if your egt's seem proportionally low do you need fuel upgrades

as a rough rule of thumb i believe 9MM is good for around 150hp > 10MM around 190hp > 11MM around 230hp > 12MM around 260hp

these estimates are not 100% accurate , as there are many many pump variables that can be used to maximise a pumps flow other than a raw change of piston/plunger, but its a good guide

Our cam plate i have just measured has a lift of 2.2mm for starters , there are some out there with 3.3mm lift

UP GRADING THE PISTON IS NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED ! it brought me out in a cold sweat just measuring , the potential for screwing up a whole pump is immense - just getting the right parts is head ache in its self - you need the cam plate , piston/plunger , distributor head , from the donor pump , -- pumps come in right or left turning pistons > OURS IS A RIGHT HAND CLOCK WISE , pistons can be matched to some vehicles that have 2 stage injectors also which are unusable, --- Cam plates cant come from a direct injection motor as they are too aggressive , unlike the piston plunger which can ! ,
And invariably direct injection motors have the largest diameter piston/plungers which usually proves troublesome as usually a cam plate and piston/plunger are a matched pair !, -
You can use an unmatched piston/plunger + cam plate if you are willing to do some carefull adaption though , as the plunger foot/base has a locating key way that matches a drive pin in the cam plate , when upgraded each pair will have a corresponding sized item , so when mismatching , some gental notch work has to take place

if anyone is in a postion where they need to do this modification , i can make a short step by step vid if it helps anyone , But really if you at this point in your modifications , i seriously doubt youll need what little guidance i can offer lmao
http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/p...g?t=1232051645
http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/p...g?t=1232051691
http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/p...g?t=1232051716
http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/p...g?t=1232051744

[duckruls]

More interesting info santaclaus, keep it coming

The VNT is being used with the variable vanes, I have an idea how it is done after seeing it on tdiclub, a throttle operated cable (and a spring) pull the vanes to full boost position on full throttle, a wastgate actuator is used to overide the throttle cable vane position depending on boost pressure.

Its a work in progress but they estimate the power at 180bhp, the most powerful he has heard of in portugal is 225+bhp.

Looking at the turbo maps DutchNovaDiesel posted, the RHF4 map seems to be similar to the RHB5 map and a fair amount different to the RHB4 map, just wondering if its a straight swop would it not be an easy upgrade ?

[santaclaus]

cool stuff there duckruls , very intriguing i must say , I'd rather believe figures from either your self or that have come from the Continent than some one like Baxter that banded around some time ago that his motor dynoed 280hp one moment , 360hp the next - No offence to the guy , my heart wishes it to be true but hearing that the whole of the vw scene have yet to break the 300 mark on their TDI'S and 250 on their IDIs my head has to think other wise

the highest horse power isuzu dyno graph i have seen , belonged to a guy named BECA'S in Portugal , and it made 240 hp , though it may not actually be the highest or even the only one , as the tuning scene for the Isuzu in both Malta and Portugal are very large , Diesel drag racing in these parts are quite prevalent .and even bigger numbers may well exist

So i suppose our motors shouldn't be under estimated , As to me they have to be rated as possibly the strongest of any potential diesel of its size , and if any were to do the numbers Baxter spoke of it would be ours most likely -

only the other day i read witness , the envy vw owners have for our motor after a forum member illustrated a case where Isuzu's had been known to be recording 7000rpm

After trawling youtube , i was astounded to find that there may be some genuine truth to the capability of those figures , just check this vid

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T2IY-1DE7Zg

Quite jaw dropping ! - i knew i owned one of these for a reason lol 7000rpm !



--Duckruls i would take those ihi compressor maps with a pinch of salt mate - as they are very general , and not actually true compressor maps - they are just a spectrum range of their generic core sizes - True individual ''turbo model specific'' maps dont exist for ihi turbos , its just a sorry fact that they have never released maps to the public in the way that garrett do and probably never will

The rhb4 and rhf4 have near identical compessor and turbine spec ( if not identical part numbers ?)- and they will flow pretty much the same which ever way you look at it - ball bearing or not - the ball bearing core will improve the longevity of its life span ( which was always the downfall of rhb ) and will improve its spool though , ( im pretty sure it was even used on some of our engines in first place - later vectra models and astras for a brief period when the isuzu was used as a stop gap till the newer dti engine came along )

As a rule of thumb etc , if you want 150hp from a diesel your turbo will need to flow in the order of 20lbs min or 280 cfm - e.g 200hp on a petrol , or have a rough sized compressor inducer of 38mm , give or take


I am trying to find BOSCH part numbers , to find out what will fit our injectors as an upgrade - if i could find out what the bosch number of the injector body is relevant to the nozzle number i could find out what other vehicles had nozzles that were compatibale with the body size -
e.g find others that have the same body , then ill purchase the various nozzles if they are different , and post the results of what each flows for us -

IF ANY ONE HAS ACCES TO ANY OF THESE NUMBERS I WOULD BE HUGELY GRATEFULL

- i am currently trying to buld an injector pump platform so that i can chuck up the pump and drive it in my gear selectable lathe - hook up a tank , and run the injectors as per usual condition into calibration tubes , and tacho the rpm using my photo tachometer laser

The potential for making recordable changes to the governor and nozzle sizes , in a quick turnaroundable basis should prove quite usefull ( if the lathe will do the max rpm needed ? a transfer box of some kind maybe needed in between

[Davcohen]

Hmm always wondered about these video's on youtube revving to 7k, still dont quite believe they will rev that high

Did try and get hold of this guy as his spec seems very different but he never responded which is a shame

Diesel Power
1.7 Turbo Diesel 'Izuzu' Engine, Front Mounted Intercooler, +1 bore 1798cc, custom ground cam, larger inlet + zorst valves, ported and flowed including manifolds, Shotpeened rods, C20xe arp bolts, forged 1800cc pistons White Ring Mod, Fuel Upped To Match Boost, Boost upped to 26psi, Sportex Exhaust System, 75bhp progressive nos F28 Gearbox (bit Quick)
212bhp @ 4890rpm 285LB @ 3500rpm

http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co....d.php?t=133664

[duckruls]

Something about the way the rev counter is moving/reacting makes me very suspicious about that video showing 7000rpm, similar to when you wire up an aftermarket rev counter and the amount of engine cylinders is set incorrectly, they read high and react in a 'lazy' fashon when blipping the throttle.

Davcohen - lots of people have tried to find out about that particular diesel motor including myself, same as you never got any reply !

[DutchNovaDiesel]

@ Santaclaus:
My previous post was a response to duckruls post, i had not seen you're post (probably because i was writing one myself).
I've been reading on several VW diesel forums, and have seen a lot of d.i.y. turbo adapters, custom manifold etc.
Which is also why i was worried about the pumps not being big enough (that's their main problem) BUT as we start off with a 10mm pump (on the 1.7's),
which (when modified i presume), should be good for upto 190bhp
(i didn't know that, and haven't seen a simple post anywhere stating this )
What are the numbers on you're pump ?
On mine they are:
NR. 9 460 620 003 VE R 341 (15DTR pump)
NR. 9 460 620 007 VE R 365 (17TD pump)

The 1488cc Isuzu's have a 9mm pump (there are even ones with 8mm pumps, but most likely not in our nova's/corsa's), so swapping to a 1.7 pump is a nice upgrade !

From the pictures i've seen, we don't need to worry about the boost aneroid pin...we have a similar "agressive" one just as the rovers:



Here a nice pump dissassembly thread: http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4353
(think i'll start with just taking the head off a broken pump i have lying around)

The RHF4 is a straight swap, and can be found on astra's and vectra's. How to recognize one:
-It has a V-band clamp holding the center housing to the exhaust side
-The compressor housing has vanes on the back
I would really like to compare the two turbo's, but that won't happen for a while.

Check these new pistons on ebay germany: (scroll down)
http://shop.ebay.de/?_from=R40&_trks...lben+astra+neu
ridiculous prices, and in std. size, 1st- or 2nd-oversize

The engines do rev pretty high, i've seen my 1.5 do 6000+rpm in 2nd gear and taking it upto 5500rpm in 5th a few times...last time killing the engine,
the problem on a standard pump is it'll start backing off the fuelling from 4500rpm or so, which is also why it doesn't just keep pulling at higher revs.
Modifying the pump / fuelling any further then removing the white polo and adjusting the fuel screw should only be done when you have
an EGT monitor to see when the exhaust gases are getting too hot (close to killing the engine hot!),
and preferably an electric fuel pickup pump to ensure enough fuel getting to the pump.

As for izuzu 1798cc...wonder which tuner told him that...as that would require a 81.5mm piston (oversize are 79.5mm or 80.0mm and normal gaskets are 80mm in diameter)
And arp bolts, what bolts? :

[eggman]

i owned a 92 td nova when i worked at patterson deisel and me and the boss thought we would see what we could do with itI will right a thread when i have time but to cut a long story short managed to get 2.4bar of boost rammed in and the engine still runs now (in my speed boat) althow every 4000 miles i needed to tighten the head down again.

[santaclaus]

Personally I'm not sure that achieving 7000rpm in a diesel is as unattainable as most people think

in terms of raw bottom end strength , a diesel has nothing to worry about in terms of rpm

having heard reports from idi vw's doing similar rpm are not uncommon , its more to the fact that they are not a necessity in most peoples eyes


heres an example thread > http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewto...highlight=dyno




being intrigued by this i decided to work out what our stroke to rod ratio is , and in what basis of an engine we have for turning high rpm


it turns out that with a stroke of 86mm and what i have measured to be a rod length of 133mm = a rod ratio of 1.54

which is in most peoples consideration - very bad !

ideally you would aim for building an engine with as long a con rod as you could , to make for an ideal rod ratio in the region of 1.80

this effectively gives a longer dwell period hanging around TDC for the same given crank rpm ( which would benefit a diesel as a diesel flame front travels very slowly + is the reason why derv's are so poor at high rpm )

But it seems that the isuzu is not alone in this bad design , the 1.6 vw idi also has a near identically poor 1.5 rod ratio lmao
Though realistically the designers may not had a choice in these effective design choices though , as by necessity >a diesel must have thicker piston ring lands + there fore guaranteeing a undesirable rod ratio just as a matter of fact )

So from this point of view 7000 rpm may seem even more unrealistic ?


But if you hold up for a min ,

this may not actually be the case , as one of the major trade offs with having a far superior rod ratio , is that all the time the piston favourably dwells at TDc - the old adage of not getting some thing for nothing comes in to play - And the trade off is that the piston has to catch up that extra time by increased velocities further down the bore
And this is where critical reliability thresholds for an engine are bound , Some engines have to withstand phenomenally high mean piston velocities in the name of this philosophy

Now thinking about it , theres every reason to believe that our engines can do 7000rpm as although they are not ideal , the compensation in a poor rod ratio is that the peak mean piston velocities at this rpm are far more containable and less excessive

So its not so much of a question of whether it could do 7000rpm ( if you were to remove the whole governor assembly and let it run away you'd know that it could ! lol ) Its more of a question of whether the head could breath at that rpm and whether the pump has enough travel in its dynamic advance mechanism to keep the injection ahead of the ever decreasing TDC time frame at that rpm

which sadly MOST Diesel's cant , and is the sole reason why diesel hp drops like a lead balloon at these speeds


So to reiterate - I genuinely believe that 7000rpm is not the issue most people would think it is - its whether you would want it or not which is the question as our volumetric efficiency is so poor at that range - due to many other constraints -- e.g > a cam that cant have any over lap > ports designed for swirl rather than flow > a prechamber > 2 valve head etc etc

But saying that --- 7000rpm would do any one no end of good if they had a humongous turbo to try and spool , so its worth keeping in mind !


( the only worries would be - Being a diesel with flat combustion design > any sort of valve bounce / float at those revs would almost certainly guarantee piston contact )

P.S any one know the rod length of any other diesel engine so can make a comparo ?



pps - i would be sceptical about the tacho in the 7000rpm youtube vid too , - but having accidentally tried to fit a petrol tacho to a diesel i can confirm that , the closest it got to a true reading was double the genuine rpm , and that was when set to 8 cylinders - 4- and 6 cylinders had a 10000rpm tacho off the dial , which doesnt appear to be the case in the vid , lol

[santaclaus]

Wicked info and links dutchnova
ill get back to ya as soon as poss with my pump serial numbers etc

[DutchNovaDiesel]

The rev. counter in the (youtube) corsa is an original corsa diesel one, so should be accurate.
(and 6500+ rpm on an engine with 0% load is pretty easy fuel wise)

Google + pump number = http://www.vepump.cn/English/Distributor_Head.htm
Showing the piston diameter and number of cilinders it was made for: VE4/ 10F 2300R365-1

As for injectors, i think the body number is Bosch 9 430 615 062
http://www.teilesuche24.de/pkw,opel,...ock-pde,102799
D*senhalter = nozzle holder
Nozzles being 9 432 610 237 / DN0PDN122

[santaclaus]

Dude you're a god send - if ya ever over this side of the channel , i think i owe you a beer mate


you too duckruls , the iveco daily 12mm piston plunger info is gonna prove invaluable to me - as its right hand / clock wise piston ive found out


More info > that i thought best share in return > just CC ' ed the total combustion volume with a burette the other day ,


stock piston grooves = 3.1 cc


cylinder head combustion chamber volume = 1.9 cc


pre chamber with injector and glow plug fitted = 10.5 cc


****pre chamber with injector fitted but glow plug removed and blanked with a 10mm stud = 12.9 cc


With a hypothetical piston projection above deck height of 0.0240'' or 0.60mm

+ head gasket thickness of 1.40mm = a combined volume , flush to the top of head gasket deck , and down to first compression ring depth is - 6.5 cc


So Total = 18.9 cc equating to a 21.8 to 1 compression ratio ( pretty much the book figure , give or take rounding etc )


Total with glow plug removed = 21.3 cc equating to a 19.5 to 1 compression ratio ( nice to know if you are gonna run a shed load of boost - during spring summer plus using the stock manifold heater , starting shouldn't be an issue either )



My test engine has pistons ready to be installed , with a machined bowel of 3.3 mm depth from the highest piston height and a diameter of 65.5mm - giving a a piston bowel volume over stock of 7.9 cc e.g now 11 cc ( while still keeping a substantial squish band around the circumference of the crown - But sadly losing the stock inner swirl grooves - which effect smoke production and efficiency , hopefully it wont matter too much to me , Not bending rods + replacing endless head gaskets at 50 + psi and nitrous are more of a priority


Giving a total combustion volume of 26.8 cc equating to a ridiculously low 15.9 to 1 compression ratio lmao


I think I'm gonna have to contemplate , trying to start the motor with an on board leaf blower , or canisters of ether if its to not look like this every time i run it , lol lmaolmaolmao

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4cvMhl...823FE&index=61


good job im gonna be trying these things on an adapted engine stand first before it ever goes near the car


ill post a vid when its ready for its maiden start , just so you guys can have a giggle lmaolmao

[Hacula]

Hi guys!

I'm Hacula from the Netherlands. I'm driving a '95 Opel Corsa 1.5D which i've swapped for a 1.5TD together with Dutchnova.
Last week I've bought an Opel Astra 1.7 TDS from which we've salvaged the engine. At the moment me and Dutchnova are preparing it to fit it into my corsa. I'll try to make pictures of the process so I can show it here. When it's all done I can join you guys in the dieseltuning

[santaclaus]

Nice choice Hacula , i for one would love to see the pics etc , - the more tuned isuzu's out there the better i say ! - it can only make for a larger community to which to share knowledge with , and take the fight to those pesky XE guys ( they dont know what theyre missing lol )

[Hacula]

Nice choice Hacula , i for one would love to see the pics etc , - the more tuned isuzu's out there the better i say ! - it can only make for a larger community to which to share knowledge with , and take the fight to those pesky XE guys ( they dont know what theyre missing lol )

Haha thanx santa! This saturday i'm ripping the astra appart. I have found buyers for the bonnet, front (incl. grill), the fifth door (trunk?), left rear door and the lights.
If i have time left I'll start cleaning and maybe stripping the engine.

The first thing I want to look at is the 'start blocker' (dunno how it is called in english) on the pump. I'll take some pictures of the engine in the process

[Hacula]

First I went to the scrapheap to get an engine mount of a 1700 corsa/combo. Found one for 20 euro's.


Next are some pictures of the engine.




The pump


The oil cooler is bigger than the one on my 1.5TD


And the RHF4


On the pic of the pump the 'start blocker' is visible. It's fitted with 2 bolts, but I cant figure out how to unloose them. I took a pic so maybe you guys can help.


I removed the gearbox so the flywheel and pressure plate are visible.


The gearbox: a F16


Clutch: 20mm with i guess 24 pins. Too bad I cant use it on my F13, its still in good shape.


Left: astra clutch, right: corsa 1.5D clutch on the pressure group of the astra. It fits so I think its possible to use it on my fly wheel.


And to be sure: I fitted the pressure group of the astra on the flywheel of my old 1.5D, fits perfectly!


After removing most of the hoses and some cleaning:



Removed parts:


Next thing to do: try to remove the 'start blocker' (is that correct english?), could use some help with that

[duckruls]

I take it the 'start blocker' is some sort of security device that replaces the normal stop solenoid ?

The bolts holding it in place look like shear bolts (the head of the bolt snaps off when tightening so that it cannot be easily removed by a thief for example, ignition lock/steering lock bolts use a similar idea).

The way I usually remove them is by tapping them around using a center punch or very small chiesel, these ones are very recessed which will make it hard to do this way, you could drill them out (but you would need to remove the inj pipes and oil filter housing etc to make room for the drill) or if you don't need to re-use this part I would personally take the brute force approach and cut/chiesel the edges off it until I could get enough access to the bolts to tap them around with a chiesel/center punch or get a pair of small vice grips on them.

Good luck with the engine change

[KristofHA]

Hello hacula,

i'm from belgium, duchtnova also helped me with my swap.
I have a 95 opel combo, with 1.7 diesel.
swapped it to a 1.7 TD from astra F.
I used my stock F13 transmission. problem with the F13, hight rpm on the highway. 4000 rpm to drive 145 km/h.
ALso, the clucht began to slip. I thought the clutch couldn't handle the torque. But it was worn out. So i removed the F13, and replaced it with a F15 transmission with a new clutch. I didn't took a new "stock" clutch, but i took one from a corsa GSI. A stock clutch is 190 mm. The one from a gsi is 200 mm. So it can handle more torque. I don't now if the 190mm cannot handle the troque, some guy's here said it works fine. But i want to be sure so i put the 200 mm in.
With the F15 i still can use the stock driveshafts. 4000 rpm with the F15 give about 160 km/h.
the only thin i extra needes was a intercooler, i bought that one on ebay.
some pics of mine:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3104647

good luck!

[Jack]

Badass.