Piccies 4 u - uprated clutches
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  1. #1
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    Piccies 4 u - uprated clutches

    Alot of threads recently have been talking about uprated clutches, and on one of them I promised some photos of teh one I've just bought from Gav at Wallace performance. So here they are.

    Both are for my xe engine in my Cav which uses an early flat type fly wheel (lightened & balanced ) and an F20 gearbox.

    The Wallace P one has an organic friction material, double springs and is slightly different in the centre (size of springs etc). The other one (for comparison) is a standard Luk one that is an OE part.


    The 2 together to see differances.


    Friction material comparison - standard on left. Uprated one contains what looks like copper strands and is almost black in colour (standard is brown).


    Standard clutch showing LUK markings on friction material and in the centre.


    Uprated - to left of spring is faint indent of LUK marking.


    Double springs in uprated clutch.



    As i said this is for an xe but from what I understand (and I'm sure siome of you can confirm) it is the same for the turbo engine.

    I've got loads more pics if you guys want to see anything particular.

    Cheers,
    Giles

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  3. #2
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    my AP is the same as Wallace's but without the double springs, just longer ones(!?) might have more coppery strands as well if it makes a difference.
    its handling 170ftlb fine and its an 8v clutch

    just for comparison, heres a piccy (AP borg&beck)

  4. #3
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    I've just clicked on this thread thinking 'oh that could be interesting'......

    What a tw*t

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    and i should have said my AP is the same material as the Wallace by the looks of it

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    Ok so we can safely assume that Gav's clutch is an LUK item as there is a LUK marking on the uprated one...hmmm, what if its off another vauxhal model? a frontera with a 2.2xe?...a cali/cav V6, or even an astra turbo?...maybe another make of car altogether?

    If you look at the spring they are longer on the uprated one...we say uprated, but it could be just a higher spec oe clutch for another make /model

    Last edited by yunis4z; 08-05-2002 at 16:42.

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    errr there are 2 separate clutches up the top there. the OE LUK and a wallace...the inner plate may well have been LUK, but the friction plate might not be

    (that might sound weird, it was me who missed a part of that post and edited lol)
    Last edited by 16vastra; 08-05-2002 at 16:46.

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    yeah but both LUK ones by the looks of it, and russ said they dont make luk uprated ones...so isnt it obvious? lmao

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    yeah sorry, i missed the caption writing for that particular piccy lmao

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    Yunis & 16V:

    I May have read your posts wrong but are you saying that because both my OE clutch and may Wallace clutch have LUK stamped on them then they are manufactured by LUK? And as it is known (and I think undisputed) that LUK don't make 'uprated/performance' clutches then it must be a standard clutch from a higher spec model?

    I DON'T AGREE WITH THIS (in full - see below).

    99% of clutches are re-manufactured, i.e. take a used origional clutch plate, clean it, check it and put new friction materal on it, with other new servicable bits like springs etc.

    Therefore because my wallace clutch is based on an LUK part it does NOT mean that it was remanufactured by LUK, only that an LUK plate was the basis of the re-manufacture.

    However as I have said in a recent thread (yunis you were on it), the plate itself (spring holes, physical size and shape of it) is different to the OE one, and I raised the suggestion that my clutch is for an xe, maybe the Wallace one is based on a turbo and that is why it looks different. However looking back at your photo Yunis (I take it this is your old turbo one) I would now say not. Maybe then it is an old LUK design, or as you suggested from an 'uprated' model.

    I'm a sceptic and thought this might be an off the shelf item (OE part) but the proof of this not being the case was that I had to wait 3 months for it to be made (stock was sold out). I can't see Gav risk loosing a good customer for a part he could get hold of down partco. - NOTE: Gav's customer service was very good through this delay.

    Yunis - you are after sourcing this (or the turbo version) of the wallace clutch cheap aren't you (by finding the source)? Don't think you're gonna find the source, and if you do I doubt he'll sell it to you. I don't think you're gonna get it any cheaper than from Gav, and believe me I checked long and hard before placing my order. When I was querying the performance of this Gav offered to give me 10 numbers of peaple who use this to testify if it's any good. Ask him and I'm sure he'll do the same for you, or start a thread: "people with a wallace clutch - any good?".

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    is the pressure plate uprated as ewell, and how much is the whole lot.
    Originally Posted by Brian_S: Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

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    For the xe the presssure plate is a standard LUK (new not refubished by the looks of it). For the turbo I believe you get an uprated pressure plate.

    The kit consists of friction plate, pressure plate and bearing. The bearing is standard (never seen a kit which includes uprated bearing and can't see an uprated one being required).

    The price is a bit difficult to say . I bought almost 800 worth of stuff from Gavin in one go, and cos I had been quoted a really good price by a competitor for the whole package (albeit with a Black Diamond clutch) gav 'reviewed' his package price.

    From what I remember full price of his clutch is a bit more than the BD one so I called up the likes of Courtney, Regal and a few others to get their opinion on the BD one. It wasn't favoured by anyone, as they all though it was a good OE spec clutch, but definatly no good for running 180+bhp (or 200+bhp ). Of course when you talk to the type of shops that only sell you something if they have a button on the till for it you get the "yeah mate they're awsome!"

    So as for price you'll have to talk to gav.

    (humm looking at todays posts I see, to have a touch of verbal dia-whatsit).

  13. #12
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    Its not an LUK design change, the springs on the turbo clutch are a lot smaller, a saw a new one yesterday at my local motor factors, like the pic i sent you, im sure its from a higher spec model, i may be wrong but that my guess.....

    Yeah they sure do re manufacture them, so it could be the case....

    Whats wrong in trying to save a few bucks? dont we all complain when they put the pertol prices up?lmao lmao lmao

    Well, even if i dont find the source, i`m not too bothered, where theres a will therse a way, like always, i`ll be speaking to a few ppl to see what alternative things i can find out.......

    watch this space!!

  14. #13
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    WOW! after looking at them piccies its time for a nice W A N K !!!





    P.

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    over clutches?....a naked woman maybe, but a LUk clutch? what ever makes u happy mate!!lmao lmao lmao

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    sarcasm ROCKS!
    Originally Posted by Brian_S: Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

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    is going bigger an upgrade for a clutch? the ford sierra 2.3 v6 clutch fits inside the 16v cover. just wondering if its an upgrade or not
    (its 232 mm dia, compared with the 228mm Vauxhall plate)

    just summat that was said to me about summat else, but got me wondering...


    aaaach scrap that question, just noticed the ford makes less bhp than the valver, cant see it as being stronger than the XE plate
    Last edited by 16vastra; 09-05-2002 at 13:54.

  18. #17
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    Tabs, take a look at this discussion about you clutch info

    My New Clutch (piccies)
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    hmmm let me think im a shop owner and somebody has just asked me for a 200+BHP clutch to go into a C20XE I also know that the 204BHP C20LET bares more than a passing resemblance to the C20XE now let me ask you this why as a store owner would i ignore a readily available off the shelf item that does the job in favour of a more expensive harder to source item that does the same Job

    Ps I have included a couple of pics of my old clutch wich I replaced with an identical one not because my clutch was worn but because I had my engine out of my car and it made sense after 40,000 miles of hard driving ware on my previous clutch (I put it in when i got the car)






    please note the long double spring setup that my genuine LUK turbo clutch uses

    Total cost 140.00
    Phase 4 nearly done Phase 5 here I come :)

  20. #19
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    maybe who ever makes the wallace clutches buys a luk bare plate and fits the uprated parts to it

    the let clutch is no good for the xe unless u have the 6 speed box
    LEE69

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    hold on a sec the clutch mounts into the block itself we have already established that the 2 blocks are the same except one needs it turbo oil feed and return holes tapping out so i dont understand why it wont fit an xe ??? have you tried I haven't but im interested to see the diffrence between the two
    Phase 4 nearly done Phase 5 here I come :)

  22. #21
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    I just had a quick look at the old clutch from my LET.
    Diamater for the shaft is approx. 25mm and it has 14 splines.

    By the look of the pics above, it seems to me that the LET shaft is a little bigger and has fewer splines than the XE unit.
    Hence, (as indicated earlier) the LET clutch would not go on the XE unless the gearbox is an F28.
    Also, you would probably need to transfer over the LET flywheel and pressure plate?? Not too sure on that, though.

    I have an "uprated" clutch on my LET from Gav myself, and it seems to hold up nicely.
    cheers,
    Allan

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    ok understood
    Phase 4 nearly done Phase 5 here I come :)

  24. #23
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    F28 (6 speed on the turbos) = 14splines
    F20 (5 speed on the xe's) = 24 splines (or something like that)

    Therefore a LET clutch will NOT drop straight into an xe.

    According to the Helix website (you must have heard of them = the dogs danglies):

    All plate sizes are 228mm
    All the bearings are the same
    However:
    LET & xe use a different cover,
    LET & xe use a different plate,

    Main shaft diameters:
    LET = 25mm, 14 teeth
    XE = 20.4mm, 24 teeth

    When I rang round looking at clutches I was told by everyone that the xe could NOT use the LET cover as they were different, not that one was upgraded and one wasn't, but that only one type would fit the engine.

    Don't think you would want to transfer LET flywheeel with a (pre93) xe flywheel as the LET uses the very heavy pot type and the (early) xe uses the much lighter flat type. Therefore you might get a stronger clutch but a more sluggish engine - good trade-off??? - don't think so unless your upgraded xe clutch is slipping and I have NEVER heard anyone say the Wallace xe clutch is not up to the job.

  25. #24
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    russ be confident that clutch u have is bloody good!! one of my mate is using the same on on his280hp/ 300ft/lb astra, and has not slipped at all yet, he is confident it can take another 20-30 more

    its the same as the sachs one, because LUK make it for them too....my old one was a remanufactured LUK and was a lot different!! had smaller springs, and only six in total ie 2 doubles and 2 singles....


    The Regal and Wallace ones are exactly the same, unless they could prove otherwise, which i did ask gav to send over the proof...but he didnt.....
    lmao
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