Vauxhall Owners Forum banner

First Defeat in Nova XE (confused)

5K views 94 replies 31 participants last post by  chip 
#1 · (Edited)
My 20XE Nova was the first 2.0 nova i had been in, not knowing what to expect i was very pleased with the power, but I always wanted to race another 2.0 nova or corsa to make sure my car was running like it should be. I met a local lad at a race track with a 2.0 nova, we had a race (straight line)& i lost BIG TIME :(

1st gear I got the better take off & got about 3ft in front, 2nd gear I completely passed his car, 3rd gear he caught up & passed me about 2 cars, 4th gear he gained another 3 car lengths on me, I kept it nailed but couldn't catch him :(

I was expecting him to beat me, but maybe by a car length if that because his car is lighter, but now I'm thinking I made have made a mistake in my choice of modifications. I'll list the differences between the cars.


My Nova:
C20XE Dizzy type / GSi Bodyshell / 2.25 Straight Through Exhaust / 16" Speedline Alessio's

His Nova:
C20XE Dispack type / 1.3 Bodyshell / F20 Gearbox / 2" Magnex system / 15" Astra GSi rims

The obvious thing is the weight difference, but surely that would of affected the whole race. I'm thinking maybe i'm loosing torque by not having any silencers?

Your comments please, sorry for the long post.

regs.
 
See less See more
#52 ·
sid16v said:
Best to get an F16CR or if you can find one, a 4x4 F20. This should give you the upper hand in the gearbox stakes.
the 3.72 F16's are quite rare nowadays, due to the cars they were fitted to.

it cant be a wide ratio final drive in this gearbox because, as i said earlier, wide ratio boxes have MUCH bigger final drives than close ratio boxes. afaik the smallest is 3.42 fitted to some F20's, and that wouldnt have made any difference to this race.
 
#61 ·
Aamir said:
My Nova:
2.25 Straight Through Exhaust / 16" Speedline Alessio's

His Nova:
2" Magnex system / 15" Astra GSi rims

I'm thinking maybe i'm loosing torque by not having any silencers,
Lack of Back Pressure and no real understanding of exhaust tuning.

All I know is that it's so complex, involving major calculations about pressure wave generation, and things that would boil your brain. I know nothing either.

All Bigger Wheels won't help.
 
#62 ·
hahha thats my old nova, its got a 3 bar fuel reg and standard creme injectors (as I wanted the blues for something else). Other that I can assure you its completely standard DIS pack XE standard F20, I had the gearbox apart to remove the ATB diff before I sold it. std manifold, just an old piper X filter and a decent magnex exhaust. don't bother trying to outcorner him either, I have never driven a big block nova that handled so well.

amazing how your old cars pop up LOL

Rich
 
#63 ·
C20LETMINI said:
hahha thats my old nova, its got a 3 bar fuel reg and standard creme injectors (as I wanted the blues for something else). Other that I can assure you its completely standard DIS pack XE standard F20, I had the gearbox apart to remove the ATB diff before I sold it. std manifold, just an old piper X filter and a decent magnex exhaust. don't bother trying to outcorner him either, I have never driven a big block nova that handled so well.

amazing how your old cars pop up LOL

Rich
Your old car, my new benchmark ;)

My plan is firstly Rolling Road it, then gearbox change & then exhaust !
 
#64 ·
wait a sec

the F20 has a CR cluster with 3.55 final drive

this is the longest final drive available so to make the gears longer u'd need to switch to a WR cluster and a shorter final drive, ie WR with 3.94 or 3.74 cwp or similar (diesel box on epc seem to be WR with 374 or 394)

can a F18 cluster even fit inside a F20 casing? i thaught the mainshaft was larger so it wouldnt fit?

looking at the numbers - u said u were showing around 135mph in 4th near the limiter which with 195/45r15 tyres would mean a WR box with 3.55 final drive (assuming the speedo was accurate, if it was a nova analog dial its probably not but anyway) which is your problem

i have silly long gears in my 1600 16v nova (mines a WR box with 355 final drive) and find that its hard to keep up with lesser powered cars thru the gears because mine drops so far back down the revs on each shift and 16v's like being revved i've compared the ratios of some different boxes and decided on a WR with 418FD, The CR/355 combination of the F20 just got on my nerves (i tried driving along in my 4th gear which is the same as an F20's 5th and it did my nut in) so the WR/418 combo gives similar 1st-3rd gearing as a CR/374 but a bit longer 4th and 5th for motorway crusing (it'll do 119 in 4th and 150 in 5th as opposed to the F20's 113 and 140)
 
#67 ·
ok now its getting confusing

with 195/45r15 wheels a standard F20CR/355 will do 62mph at 3000rpm in 5th

however u just stated u were doing 135ish near the limiter in 4th and ive been playing with my gearbox calculator for 10 minutes and no combination of gearsets and final drives can provide 62mph in 5th at 3k AND 135 in 4th near the limiter, because any gearing that allows 135 in 4th will be doing around 60 at 3k in 4th not 5th

this makes me think its a standard F20 and the good old vauxhall speedo is overreadding at high speeds, only way to tell would be to get some other speed in gears ie 50, 60 and 70 in 3rd 4th and 5th, and perhaps what speed 2nd maxes out at on the limiter and i'll try n correlate the results with a gearbox combination
 
#68 ·
I am still using all the standard F20 gears, but they're on a different Crown & pinion, so it affects all five gears, took the car for a little blat yesterday......

2nd gear at limiter: 69mph
3rd gear at limiter: 110mph

5th Gear 50mph: 1900rpm
5th Gear 60mph: 2200rpm
5th Gear 70mph: 2500rpm
5th Gear 80mph: 3000rpm

Please post your figures using standard F20

PS: 135mph in 4th was at 6000rpm not limiter :D

I'm using 195 45 16's
 
#69 ·
ok, let me have a try seeing as everyone else has.

you have wider gearing due to your final drive, so in 1st and second this is good because while he was changing gear you were still pulling away. once in 3rd you will be out of the powerband while he will be in the sweet spot. and he will continue to pull away everytime you change gear untill right at top end when you should be able to reel him in.
 
#70 ·
Aamir said:
I am still using all the standard F20 gears, but they're on a different Crown & pinion, so it affects all five gears, took the car for a little blat yesterday......

2nd gear at limiter: 69mph
3rd gear at limiter: 110mph

5th Gear 50mph: 1900rpm
5th Gear 60mph: 2200rpm
5th Gear 70mph: 2500rpm
5th Gear 80mph: 3000rpm

Please post your figures using standard F20

PS: 135mph in 4th was at 6000rpm not limiter :D

I'm using 195 45 16's
Tire size doesnt effect the speedo just the speed.
I think i messed things up its mine that does 62mph in 5th at 3000 rpm.
Where is the limiter on the XE?
I change at 6500rpm, wasnt sure if they had 1 so thought i wouldnt try, your past peak power and stay in the band anyway at 6500.

Well mine does about, (not that sure im usually trying to stay away from the kerb stop wheelspin or changing gear not looking at clock!)
35,
55,
85,
110
130 in top at 6200
 
#71 ·
i think standard limiter is 6800 but mine seems to goto nearer 7000 before it hits the limiter.
when going for it i usually change just before 7000 so i dont actually hit the limiter
as said above you have more power at higher revs even once your past peak power plus when you do change your not dropping as far down the rev range
 
#72 ·
sorry mate but theres no way tahts an F20CR cluster, u couldnt fit a final drive long enough to take 4th all the way to 135mph

thats almost certainly a WR cluster with a mid range final drive prolly around 3.74 or 3.94

when i get home i'll run the numbers and work things out for you as im at uni just now but an F20 tops out at about 145ish in 5th and your cars doing that in 4th near enough

if u look at the speeds the other guy has posted u'll see what i mean, your doing 70 in 2nd and hes only manageing 55

this is the exact problem i have with ****ty long gears and some slower cars do seem to be able to keep up with me midrange as unless im really on the ball its nearly always in the wrong gear,
 
#74 ·
ok looking at those figures uve given me you have almost the same gearing as me

WR cluster with 3.55 final drive:

that would give approx 65mph in 2nd and 100mph in 3rd as uve said

and with that box in 5th u get:

50mph at 1850rpm
60mph at 2200rpm
70mph at 2600rpm and
80mph at 2975rpm

which is bang on the dot for what u have

its the same gearing i have (mines an F15 from a 1.7TD astravan) and its absolutely appauling tbh

theres an F18 fitted to cavalier 2.0 8v's with this gearing and also an F18 fitted to astra3 1.7TD, x20xev, c18xes and c20ne's with the same gearing so it could be one of those boxes or clusters in your F20 casing
 
#75 ·
Aragorn said:
ok looking at those figures uve given me you have almost the same gearing as me

WR cluster with 3.55 final drive:

that would give approx 65mph in 2nd and 100mph in 3rd as uve said

and with that box in 5th u get:

50mph at 1850rpm
60mph at 2200rpm
70mph at 2600rpm and
80mph at 2975rpm

which is bang on the dot for what u have

its the same gearing i have (mines an F15 from a 1.7TD astravan) and its absolutely appauling tbh

theres an F18 fitted to cavalier 2.0 8v's with this gearing and also an F18 fitted to astra3 1.7TD, x20xev, c18xes and c20ne's with the same gearing so it could be one of those boxes or clusters in your F20 casing
Still very tall gears, good i guess at cruising speeds but your never going to pull in 5th. Mine is 2 low and its straight to flat out in top, something in the middle or a 6 speed would be much better.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top