Need Engine Specs For A Rebulid (fao Animal/oddball)
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  1. #1
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    Need Engine Specs For A Rebulid (fao Animal/oddball)

    right, my engine is gonna come out for a rebuild soon. wanna know the spec for boring, the pistons needed and all the other tech stuff for me to do to my car!!

    want EVERY bit of info possible as i am gonna throw everything at this engine (possibly TB's or a supercharger)
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    bore the block around the piston size you choose, just ask i am sure you have access to the gauges needed to make the block the right size

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    Your local machine shop will know the running clearance for the pistons you choose, if they are specialist ones , forged or hypereutectic then the notes that come with them should give details of recommended running clearances. Make sure the bores are plateau honed following boring.

    Crank journal sizes are also well known so don't worry about it.

    Dave
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    don't worry about boring/honing unless you intend to run omegas etc with hard rings - get specialist advice in this case as the hone spec becomes important.

    otherwise if it's just an overbore using standard pistons then it's a diy job, or the machine shop can do it easy.

    like DVA says - grinds & oversizes are easy too, they'll sort it out for ya.

    the trick really is knowing the right people/choosing the right upgrade bits to suit want you want out of the engine, and not forgetting a small but important bit that the new power will kill.. like (dare I say it Mr Animal) a certain oil pump that a 252 spec engine sucks all the life out of..

    what exactly are you aiming for - thats the most important thing to decide before you start spannering/buying...

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    its not so much the bore sizes im after here, more any problems people encountered and any other ways people have found of upping the power.... but thanks for the advice anyway...
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    PIST-0M86.50SLS
    Omega 86.50mm Slipper Piston set
    544.00

    PIST-OM86.50XS
    Omega 86.50mm Special Shape
    370.80


    theres the prices on the pistons, also the con rods are about 500 a set so is it gonna be worth paying 1K for new pistons? or does anyone know anywhere cheaper?
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    you need to be careful with omega rings as they're hard - anyone out there know a good diy way of honing for these as I'd be interested too ?

    otherwise 370 is about the right price for basic omegas - you'll only want slippers if you intend to build a very high spec lump - likewise the steel rods - once you start down that road budget on at least 5k..

    try pm'ing Elmo Putney - he may be able to get some pistons for you.

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    not forgetting a small but important bit that the new power will kill.. like (dare I say it Mr Animal) a certain oil pump that a 252 spec engine sucks all the life out of..
    i'm starting to think, after a long chat with various oil people at autosport, that it was the oil temperature which killed it, much more so than the pump's lack of pressure.

    slipper pistons aren't worth the money as:

    you need special rods (850) which then need a steel crank (1600) as they are a different width to standard.

    they wear out easier

    so not really worth it on a road car

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    I'm flattered that you asked me in the post title, but i'm learning all this stuff right now too. I know "engines" like the back of my hand, but i'm getting intimate with the 20XE as we speak.

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    Was gonna ask about Jornal sizes thought I'd do a search first to see whats been said before, and it seemed relavent to this post....

    Gary,
    I seem to remember you saying that various levels of Cranks were used on XE's. What were the differences, I seem to remember the early ones had wider jornals (mains or BE?).

    I've just managed to get hold of the Glacier Vandervell product cd (dealer only usually) but it lists the same Main beaings for every XE derivative (icluding Turbo, 1.8 & 2.0 Ecotecs).
    & The big ends are the same for all XE incl turbo.
    >19.25mm width for mains
    >20.3mm width for BE

    What do you know fella?
    Can anyone shed some light on this grey area?
    I work for Ford, and I still wouldn't buy one!

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    earlier XEs definitely had +1mm width big ends elmo - seen and measured it myself - they'll fit either the early or later cranks I believe (double check that though) - the early cranks were 4kg lighter, so preferable if you can get one - but you can only get them 2nd hand now.

    BE material changed as well - the very late ones were some cheapo lead/tin, not lead/copper. Also - you'll have trouble getting the +1mm width ones in oversizes - SBD used to be able to get them, but can't anymore, so the only crank you can use a 21mm BE on now is an unground crank.

    mains as you say I think were the same throughout.

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    As Gary says, do make sure you use the VP2 Lead/indium/bronze bearings, not the reticular tin rhubarb..

    Dave
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    Dave, do you know anywhere i can source oversized lead/copper bearings?
    Originally Posted by Brian_S: Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

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    good question - more specifically, oversizes (well, undersizes, as the trade strangely refers to them) in the 21mm width versions ?

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    The XE bottom end has been around long enough for VP to make them, so I iamgin any good automotive rebuild factors. I can check my local engineering workshop if you like, Cleevite bearings are also lead/indium and are made for quite a few common applications. The trade call them undersizes *because the crank is undersized*

    Dave
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    Interesting, Clevite is owned by DANA international the very same company own Galcier Vandervell. I'll have a chat to the to see what they can dig up.

    The Vandervell bearings are:

    Big Ends: Lead Bronze On Steel
    Mains: Lead Bronze Sintered on Steel

    Quite what the different processes do for perforamce (not power output) I dont know.

    Appart from jornal's, anyone done any other crank mods? I know on Golfs and the like you're sposed to remove the jornal oil way plugs, give them a good clean out and replace them with grub screws (and some strong loctite).
    Anyone recomend a place that does tuftriding?
    I work for Ford, and I still wouldn't buy one!

  18. #17
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    The mains will be sintered to keep costs down, the real loadings are on the rod bearings hence the layered solid material. Lead bronze material while much more hard wearing is also more vulnerable to attacks from acids produced during the combustion process, if you are going to leave your engine stored for a while, best flush some fresh oil through it first. L/B shells are also more susceptible to debris damage since they are harder than the RT type bearings which tend to allow debris to impact and bury itself in the surface, with LB shells the debris is more likely to run around the bearing teraing the *** out of it.

    There is mileage in increasing the size of the chamfer at the oil discharge hole in the big-ends and forming it inot a tear drop shape. You need a steady hand and nerves of steel to do this. Cross dfrilling on both mains and big-ends can be beneficial.

    Dave
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    aye I know Dave, it's just a little confusing

    Elmo, the XE crank, as far as I know, requires, or benefits from, very little in terms of mods - I just got mine balanced, but avoided getting it lightened on the advice of the guy who does the cranks for Swindon engines, who did mine - they're known to be good to at least 8500rpm.

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