What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?
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    Question What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    Expert opinions would be most appreciated..
    What sort of BHP/Torque figures would you expect from an C20XE lump of the following spec:

    45mm TB's, with Alpha+ Management
    Forged Pistons (Giving 11:1 CR)
    Courtenay (Presumably 'Hi-Torque') cams
    Extensive headwork (exact spec unknown)
    Uprated rods, etc
    Balanced Crank
    Lightened Flywheel
    4-1 Manifold, to 2.5" Full 'zaust system


    I realise every T, D, & Harry asks this sort of question, but I'd really appreciate some honest answers here, TIA.
    Last edited by Magician; 12-06-2004 at 11:13. Reason: Forgot to add exhaust details... :)

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    MIG Regions Admin / South Central Regional Coordinator Benn's Avatar
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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    200ish brake
    thats my guess anyway
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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    yeah, if it's setup correctly around 200bhp

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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    Seriously as low at 200bhp? From what I can tell, other people are claiming 220-230bhp for this sort of setup.. What would have to be different..?

    Many thanks in advance.

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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    jamie f is the best 2 ask
    he's running a great set up
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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magician
    Seriously as low at 200bhp? ..
    Low?
    you call 33% more power from a n/a engine (at the same revs) low?

    We're talking realistic figures here, if you want pub bull then it could be 250+vat

    If the cams are really wild and the max power rev range is raised, and the headwork is really good, and everything is really well optimised to work together, then maybe 210-220.
    But it's not that easy, the XE is a good design to begin with.

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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    45mm TB's, with Alpha+ Management
    Make around 185BHP on a std engine.

    Forged Pistons (Giving 11:1 CR)
    A few horse power from extra CR, depends on cams.

    Courtenay (Presumably 'Hi-Torque') cams
    Why would you want high torque cams? With TBs you'd be better off extending the high rpm performance and sacrificing some bottom end.

    Extensive headwork (exact spec unknown)
    A few more percent thet std heads aren't bad.

    Uprated rods, etc
    Balanced Crank
    Lightened Flywheel
    No power addding from these, just necessarry to allow high revs.
    4-1 Manifold, to 2.5" Full 'zaust system
    Necessary for the other modifications.


    Verdict: around 200BHP. A bit more is possible. All depends on the cam used, the matching of the manifold to the cam and the quality of the mapping.

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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    Thankyou all, I really appreciate your input..

    So, realistically, anyone claiming 220bhp+ on a setup based on this sort of spec is having a giggle - so what to people like SBD and QED do to get the sort of figures they quote then? As I said - I see lots of people rekoning 220-230bhp with similar setups to the one I listed - are they drunk?

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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    the weber management never gives a good power increase, thats your weak spot
    change that and the cams to 285s and you will be up around 220
    plus weber seem to like crap filters that sap power, run an itg sausage if you arent already

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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    I see lots of people rekoning 220-230bhp with similar setups to the one I listed - are they drunk?
    Welcome to the world of people's imaginations. They're quoting the upper end of the plausible power values.

    Ask them at what rpm they're making peak power.

    It it is possible to get into the mid 200s. It's a balance of cam, throttle bodies, ECU mapping and a few other things. Animal and Mike Warner have been there or close to there.

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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    My mate's calibra XE is standard he's running 250 bhp. Chris your round
    I reckon 200 bhp from that set up bearing in mind your cams and management are well to put it bluntly crap compared to some out there!
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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    Thankyou again to all..

    With regards to 'power at wheels', been doing my homework, and 12-15% loss through an F20 gearbox/transmission seems the accepted norm.

    So with this XE engine doing 200 bhp @ fly, would one expect 170bhp @ wheels? Or more? Or less? Some people seem to think the F20 comes with a power eating pixie, that steals all the HP, and others love it.. whats the opinion here?

    Again, TIA.

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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    20XE with 1mm overbore giving 2044cc, 87mm forged Omega race pistons give a comp ratio of 11.3:1, SBD/Arrow Steel Con Rods and ARP heavy duty rod bolts, heavy duty bearings, SBD steel inner oil pump gear and new outer gear, SBD nylon relief valve, Ported and polished head, SBD/Kent Spec cams(inlet 284 duration/11.40mm lift, exhaust 276 duration,11.04mm lift, SBD/Kent vernier pulleys, Kent valve springs, steel spring caps, 11mm bronze valve guides, 2mm cometic steel head gasket, ARP head stud kit, ARP flywheel bolts, MBE 967E 3D programmable engine management with distributor-less ignition, Jenvey 45mm direct to head throttle bodies, 90mm trumpets, pipercross air filter, bosch cream injectors, FSE fuel pressure regulator with gauge set to 65 PSI(4.5 bar), SBD fast road exhaust manifold with scorpion stainless exhaust fully wrapped in exhaust wrap, rev limit set at 8100rpm

    thats jamies engine spec,when mapped up running about 220-230bph
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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    Fair play..

    I started this thread, as I was reading back on the spec of the XE engine spec in Jon Shields Courtenay Nova Sport from a few years back, and was entrigued as to how it would be making 235bhp, as claimed in Total Vauxhall.

    This spec I listed above, was pretty identical to that, and it's good to get peoples reactions.. Anyone got any opinions on this?


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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    if jamies running 65psi thats just answered one question he asked me about 30 mins ago lmao

    you can get 290bhp from this style of setup, how deep is your wallet lmao

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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    naa im running 60psi now

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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    you cant break mods down into 7hp for this cam and 5 for headwork, it all depends on the complete package. If your engine revs to 6000 as std, you can create 1.5 times the power by increasing to 9000revs. BUT you wont as the head will need to be worked to allow the flow, and the camshafts seriously looked at to allow it to happen.

    Basically your engine has had as much breating restriction removed as possible, so it all comes down to timing, the perfect map and cam combination is everyones holy grail!! And probs something which can never be achieved with alpha management. Other than that, your engine hasnt been modified. The lightening and balancing work however does open up more options with increasing the rev limit.

    iirc nova gte works cars used to see nearly 150hp from a 7800rev limit and a different chip, and some component prep, yet another example of making power from revs.

    The likes of SBD who quote ballistic figures are building race engines that rev beyond where you would want to on the road, when they say weve got a 240hp baby valver running N/A in our caterham it doesnt mean you can or would want one in your corsa tomorrow!!

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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    actualy it does, they dont just sit in their showroom you know lmao

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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    remember the courtenay nova, that they built for VBH on Top Gear -

    despite a SRE 250 spec head / cams etc, Courtenay themselves reckoned it was more like 230.

    It had Alpha management and sock filters - make of that what you will.

    I agree with the comments already made - out of the car, on an engine dyno, that spec might make 205-210 bhp, if really really well mapped.

    also, 'extensive headwork' might mean anything - if it's been done badly, that head might be losing you power - it could make or break that setup.

    Oddball is getting over 200bhp on MBE & parallels, standard cams, headwork - so far he's the only person I've seen on a similar spec with proven 170+bhp at the wheels.

    Mike Warner still has (had) the best proven 230bhp spec engine on MIG - but it took mapping by SBD themselves for it to all come togther properely.

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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    It was the Courtenay Nova, that had already come to mind.
    Been discussing that particular engine in another thread today, and it seems the two threads have now come together quite nicely!

    Thank you for your comments.. I just wanted to start a good healthy discussion about that particular engine spec, or indeed any spec very similar to it. I was also confused as to how the jump from 204 to 230/235 was made - which Astra16v has now cleared up.

    I was just intrigued as to whether anyone had _ever_ seen a plot for that XE's dyno sessions?

    Thanks to all for your continued comments..

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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    JohnA
    if you want pub bull then it could be 250+vat
    rolmfao! lmao
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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    Quote Originally Posted by benn
    20XE with 1mm overbore giving 2044cc, 87mm forged Omega race pistons give a comp ratio of 11.3:1, SBD/Arrow Steel Con Rods and ARP heavy duty rod bolts, heavy duty bearings, SBD steel inner oil pump gear and new outer gear, SBD nylon relief valve, Ported and polished head, SBD/Kent Spec cams(inlet 284 duration/11.40mm lift, exhaust 276 duration,11.04mm lift, SBD/Kent vernier pulleys, Kent valve springs, steel spring caps, 11mm bronze valve guides, 2mm cometic steel head gasket, ARP head stud kit, ARP flywheel bolts, MBE 967E 3D programmable engine management with distributor-less ignition, Jenvey 45mm direct to head throttle bodies, 90mm trumpets, pipercross air filter, bosch cream injectors, FSE fuel pressure regulator with gauge set to 65 PSI(4.5 bar), SBD fast road exhaust manifold with scorpion stainless exhaust fully wrapped in exhaust wrap, rev limit set at 8100rpm

    thats jamies engine spec,when mapped up running about 220-230bph
    Faaaaaaaaaaack! I ain't spending that much money!!!!!!!!!!!




    ..............yet! lmao

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    Re: What would you expect from C20XE with this spec?

    you cant break mods down into 7hp for this cam and 5 for headwork, it all depends on the complete package.
    Yes and no. You can draw some conclusions from the basic set of components and certain things will roughly give a certain percentage gain up to a point. It's all a matter of opinion as to the final combined outcome and poor mapping will restrict the result.

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